Tuesday, September 17, 2013

Gang Turf War In Carroll Park?

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UPDATE
Information Regarding The Events Described Below From The 76th Precinct:
I just spoke with the 76th Precinct this morning. The police are actively investigating two incidents in Carroll Gardens.
-The first took place in Carroll Park in the afternoon and involved a group of teen-agers. The police is not aware of any weapons being used during this incident.
-The second incident involved gunshots near Carroll Park at around 7:50 PM.
As of this time, the 76th Precinct has not connected the two incidents. Officers are "aggressively" investigation both events. In the meantime, uniformed police will be patrolling in and around Carroll Park to prevent any further incidents.
The 76th Precinct encourages anyone with information to contact them directly at 718 834 3221.
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I received report of a fight amongst teen-agers in Carroll Park yesterday afternoon at about 3:30 PM. Police responded quickly and EMT workers took one of the kids to the hospital.
This is not the first time kids get into a scuffle in the park, but apparently there was much more to the incident.
I just received an email from Reader Peter, who warns that there may have been weapons involved.
He writes:
"Brooklyn friends with kids: there is some kind of turf war going on in and around Carroll Park in Carroll Gardens. Tell your kids to steer clear. My son was with friends and they were attacked by a bunch of other kids with weapons. The cops said that later today, shots were fired as well. Max is okay after being knocked out by a blow to the back of the head and about 4 hours in the hospital. He's home now. But there's a Gowanus-Red Hook battle going on that kids need to keep out of. Sadly, the cops who took his report seemed not up to the task of keeping people safe and honestly, less intelligent that my 17 year old son. It kinda pissed me off. But most importantly, spread the word."

Further, I received additional information from a reader about the gunshots heard later in the evening.
Here is the reader's account:
"I am not sure whether this is related to the story about the “turf war” in Carroll Park yesterday, but it seems gunshots were fired in or just outside the Park (near corner of Carroll and Court Streets) at about 7:50 PM last night.  I was walking south on Court Street and had just passed the Park at that time when I heard about 7 shots coming from the direction of the Park.  I immediately ran into the Dunkin Donuts for shelter, and a bunch of people ran past, further south on Court Street.  A few minutes later police arrived, but I don’t know if they came to any conclusions or took any action."

And here is more crime news from the neighborhood,which is not related to the event in the park, but disturbing nonetheless. There seems to have been a stabbing on Luquer Street last night.
From a post on the BOCOCA Parent Group:
"Hi, Neighbors: I wanted to let you know that there was a mugging at knife point on Luquer Street between Clinton and Hamilton last night around 9 or 10 p.m. The male asked a woman for a cigarette and then stabbed her a few times."
(Please not that the stabbing has NOT been confirmed with the 76th precinct.)





51 comments:

Anonymous said...

Let's all take a deep breath, and not go with the instinctive behavior--to panic. Katia, did you try to get a comment from the 76th? What are they saying?

Katia said...

That's sound advice. Will put in a call to 76th Precinct and report back.

Anonymous said...

There were gunshots on Court Street between Carroll and President yesterday evening around 7:40. The shooter shot from the sidewalk in front of Carroll Park towards the Chase bank. No one was hit.

The shooter just walked calmly back up Court. The police and an ambulance arrived maybe ten minutes later. The ambulance left quickly, but the police stayed around to look for casings and talk to residents.

Alison Fargis said...

I witnessed the shooting last night at 7:50pm on Court Street. A group of about 6 or 7 teens came running at top speed around President and down Court Street. A few seconds later another teen rounded the same corner, stopped at the corner of Carroll and Court on the park side and fired three shots across the street towards Chase Bank. I ran into the deli on Court and called 911. It took the police 10 minutes to arrive. No sirens, one cop car, and I had to flag the officers down at President and Court to tell them that I phoned in the incident. When I complained about the response time, given that I could walk faster from the 76th precinct, the police officer told me to "blame Bloomberg."

Sebastian said...

I live on President across from the park and I heard the shots at 7:48. We don't get that in our neighborhood so I didn't know what it was but I went and looked out the window and saw a black teenager running down President on the townhouse side. He may have been running to get to the subway, which is not an unusual sight, or he may have been running to get away either because he'd been the one shooting or shot at. Who knows. Should

Ed Yuter said...

Katia, Would it be ok to hand out copies of this to the parents of our kids in PS 58?
Ed

Katia said...

Hi Ed,
I think that would be a good idea, as long as the information includes the update I just included from the 76th Precinct and their direct telephone number.
Thanks.

Anonymous said...

Ed - The parent coordinator at PS 58 just sent out information in her daily e-blast.

This always seems to happen as soon as Kathleen is done for the year. Such a shame budgets don't allow for her to be there longer in to the year.

Emma said...

I'm furious that this is happening in Carroll Gardens and I hope that the police are as aggressive as they say in their investigation.

Now that the 76th Precinct Twitter account is extinct, what do you is the best way to express how important this is to us without interfering with their police work? A note/letter to Captain Jeffrey Schiff?

Winden said...

I am concerned about the stabbing incident you mention on Luquer. When you spoke to the police was that confirmed? I tried to search the web to see if that was reported anywhere but didn't find anything so I would love to know if that is verified. Stabbing multiple times is pretty serious as well.

Anonymous said...

There is no reason on earth why Carroll Park should be allowed to regress to the gang wars of the 50s and 60s that I remember as a child here (Seaview Kids vs. Degraw Street Boys). Pressure needs to be put on the 76th "aka Country Club" Precinct to add patrols around the Park and both ends of the subway station.

Katia said...

Winden,
When I spoke to the 76th precinct, it was only about the Carroll Park incident and the shots fired around the park at night. The stabbing did not come up, so it has not been confirmed.

A while back, the Precinct sent out information on incidents directly via emails. I have not gotten one in quite some time.

I encouraged the precinct to reach out to the community with their own statement about what happened in the park yesterday.

Anonymous said...

Forget the 76th Precinct. When is the mafia going to put their feet in the rear-ends of these wannabe gangsters and remind them who's turf it REALLY is?!?!

I say this only half in jest.

Katia said...

I just want to clarify again that the stabbing incident mentioned on Bococa's list serve has NOT been confirmed with the 76th precinct.

Anonymous said...

I find it interesting that eye witnesses have provided virtually no physical description of the people in shooting incident.

How many?
Approximate Ages?
What they were wearing?
Heights?
Race?
Were there two distinct groups? Or one group that was fired upon by a single individual.

Pardon ME for asking...but I think folks ought to know what the kids looked like. I realize this may involve a bit of racial profiling...but I think we ought to put safety first, and political correctness second.

Thank you.

Katia said...

I think we should leave that to the police.

Josh Robin said...

We should not have to think twice about taking our kids to Carroll Park. Please take 3 minutes and call local electeds/precinct to make sure they are on this:


Brad Lander: 718-499-1090
Joan Millman: 718-246-4889
76 Precinct: (718) 834-3211

Anonymous said...

I was there--in fact, I think my wife and I were the closest people to the actual shooting, since we were rounding the corner as soon as the kids came around president street. The shooter bumped into my wife right before he drew his weapon and kept running down court, and started shooting about 30 seconds later. These kids were young--the shooter included. They must have been no older than fourteen, maybe fifteen. One of the kids running had one of those scooters that you see everywhere. Seriously, these were children with guns.

Anonymous said...

The shooter that I saw appeared to be a skinny African-American male in a grey hoodie.

Matt said...

Today at 4:40 or so I emerged from the F station near the corner of the park and a guy in a gray hoodie and baggie jeans and cornrows or braids, who resembled a shorter, mid-30s version of Ludacris, startled me by bellowing on the stairs, "WE DON'T CARE, WE DON'T CARE, SHOOT THE PLACE UP!" over and over again, while making gun motions with his right hand. As he crossed Smith he lingered in front of oncoming traffic, looking toward the park, repeating the line (which is from a Big Punisher song) and making the hand gestures. It seemed to my perhaps paranoid mind an obvious reference to the night before. He ended up walking down President, stopping frequently to see if anyone was noticing.

mattwelch said...

I just called the 76th to tell them the story I just mentioned here (thought the moderator hasn't approved the comment yet), regarding the guy yelling "WE DON'T CARE, WE DON'T CARE, SHOOT THE PLACE UP," and the woman there A) didn't ask for any details at all, and B) explained, after I mentioned there were no cops in the park to tell this to, that they are patrolling the park "in their cars," and not on foot. I expressed surprise at this, and my hope that they might set foot inside.

Michael Czaczkes said...

Katia,

Assemblywoman Millman has been in touch with the Captain and the office has been in touch with community affairs today. We were also told that there were two incidents but it cant be confirmed that they were related. There was a fight yesterday afternoon in Carroll Park and one person was brought to the hospital followed by gunshots around 8pm at Court and Carroll Streets.

We are discussing increased patrols, if the incidents are connected and what was the cause of these incidents was.

Our office can be reached at 718-246-4889 or millmanj@nysa.us

Thanks

Michael Czaczkes
Deputy Chief of Staff
ASSEMBLYWOMAN JOAN MILLMAN
718-246-4889

Louis Big Lou Fontana said...

When my kid was 12 a,group.of.142 kids jumped her kicked her In.the street at .4 on. The 76 told me it's only gonna be a misdemeanor and.did shot .... That was 2002 . When I was 12.in 1982 thugs couldn't walk down court street.with out a pack of good neighborhood people ,chasing them no.shootings back.then . Thank the.yuppies and the greedy fucks who.make sure the Italian and Irish neighborhood people have to leave cause the rent.is 2500.a month. Even my own.greedy relatives they don'tdo.shit for me anyway so what do I care .

Anonymous said...

Just like when I grew up in Carroll Gardens.....maybe all the yuppies will move out and we (the one's who grew up in the South Brooklyn) can move back.

Frederick_F said...

I was disappointed but not surprised when I failed to notice any police presence, neither in car nor by foot, when I spent the hours between 4.45 and 5.30 in the park this afternoon. I would like to hear an explanation as to why this was the case when I attend the precinct meeting on October 8.

Anonymous said...

If you like this episode, you're going to LOVE the de Blasio administration! Let's see how progressive Brooklyn is when parents have to worry about bullets flying while trying to take their kids to the park.

Anonymous said...

Amen...to the commenter on the DeBlasio commenter. I think it will be a return to the Dinkins administration as far as crime is concerned.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous at 8:06,

Lalalalalalalalala. No one can hear you. Didn't you get the memo? It's some type of sin to speak ill of the great progressive savior. Seriously, safety is a great concern not only for the youngest children in Carroll Park but for middle school and older who often travel by themselves by public transportation to and from school. On a positive note, de Blasio who everyone thinks is the bestest progressive evah has mentioned that he would like William Bratton to be his police commissioner. Now there's a blast from the Guiliani past.

Anonymous said...

@mattwelch - I was surprised to see such a light police presence at the park today too.. I was there at about 2:45 until 3 and saw 1 policewoman on foot standing by the bathrooms. I picked up my kids at PS 58 and ran some errands and noticed a police van circling the park with at least 3 police officers inside. Inside. Really? That is the response after a shooting 100 yards from a school?

Anonymous said...

This precinct is notorious for being lax and arrogant. If you see something amiss, call 911, if it seems threatening say so, be firm and stress threatening manner. As for the poster who suggested 'racial profiling' really? If you read further, the description is there. I don't care if these kids are black, white or hispanic. They are children with GUNS. The pressure has to be kept on the precinct and our local officials.

Howard G said...

On The evening of September 4, my family was returning by car from my parents' Rosh Hashanah dinner in Jersey. I dropped my wife and dog at Court & Union to Carroll so she could get some cash, and proceeded to Smith to try to get some wine before Smith and Vine closed.

My son and I were stopped at the corner of Smith and Carroll when about 25 teenagers of both genders, almost all of them black, ran out of Carroll Park at track and field level speeds--one girl screamed, "I think he has a gun." They all ran off in different directions. Then one tall young man ran out separately and cased the corner.

The light turned and we proceeded to Smith and Vine, where the gate was being taken down. We doubled back to Smith and Union to get some beer, and found a few of the kids from the park milling around in small groups at various corners.

I am convinced this is an earlier incident of the same nature, and there have probably been others. But we were too focused on the holiday to tell anyone, until you jogged my memory here.

concerned papa bear said...

Carroll gardens is a great area. I can't believe this is happening to our wonderful place to live. I wish there was something we could do. The police have been curbed by Bloomberg cutting budgets. I heard this area was very protective of itself a short while in the past by italian and irish dwellers. I wonder if some of those Italian and or Irish folks from back then would participate in a neighborhood watch program Kinda like the.l way they protected the area in the past? They all seem to always know who.is who around town. I'm sure we could petition some of them. Even some of the old time mafiosi im sure can help control whats going on in the park. Does anyone know how we can hire one?

Anonymous said...

I consider myself a liberal and I am scared at the prospect of DeBlasio as mayor. He wants to get rid of Ray Kelly right away and raise taxes on the rich...good luck dealing with Cuomo on these issues.

With the huge amount of young kids that are in that park each day they need cops on the beat.

Sebastian said...

I agree about de Blasio. He has pretty much promised to fire Ray Kelley and to "reform" stop & frisk (IE hamstring it).

De Blasio worked for Dinkins, Lhota worked for Giuliani. I know who I'm voting for...

Look, we don't have a lot of crime in our neighborhood to begin with. If the PD are forced to stop using the tactics they've employed in the past 20 years to reduce crime by record levels, we will see a rise in crime Carroll Gardens. But the neighborhoods that will hardest hit will be Red Hook, BedStuy, etc.

Look at the CompStat reports for the 76th precinct and the rest of the city detailing crime now compared to 20 years ago. Do we want to go back to the Dinkins administration? And remember, those who will really suffer will be minorities.

By the way, in my earlier comment I mentioned that I saw a black teenager running down President Street just after I heard the gun shots. Well, he was wearing a dark gray hooded sweatshirt...

Anonymous said...

For the newcomers of our neighborhood i have been living here all my life carroll gardens is not Kansas my frirends take the earplugs out of your ears the laptops off the outdoor table seating and be aware of your surroundings and keep leaving your pocketbooks along side where you sit and then maybe there would be less muggings etc and as far as carroll park this turf war stuff has been going on for years

Anonymous said...

It has been my experience that the after school fights among the teenagers are the kids from the school on Henry St. (BCS?) and the school on President (New Horizons?). I think it if was Red Hook vs. Gowannus there would be incidents on the weekends and I don't recall any.

Anonymous said...

I walked through Carroll Park at 5p yesterday and there were no police in the park. I saw the comment about patrolling by car. We need some visible police presence in the park given the recent events.

Anonymous said...

The population of Brooklyn is way up. Ten years ago Carroll Gardens was said to have the highest population under the age of 8. Well those kids are now teens and they have to share less space with all the baby's and young children in our very small park.

Why haven't the city planners anticipated the quality-of-life issues that were bound to emerge?

The most fearful aspect of a deBlasio administration is his plans to pack thousands of new housing units in the area around the canal.

More people (and kids) fighting over less public space will require more aggressive policing just to keep a lid on things. So what can we expect from an administration that will pack us more densely together and lighten the policing at the same time? Will we all be able to live more peaceably together because the babies have pre-k classes being payed for by the wealthy?

Anonymous said...

Nobody mentioned anything about cameras. They don't prevent events from happening but they provide evidence after the facts and may help find the shooter. I think there should be cameras in and around the park.

Anonymous said...

Please stop talking like it would be a good idea to get the old fat italians that think they are cool and part of the Mafia, to police the area. The last thing anyone should want is to encourage these old deranged folks into thinking they are more important than common sense and the law.

Anonymous said...

Please stop talking about how deranged you think our old school Italian neighbors are. These folks bought thier traditions and rich culture to the neighborhood and settled down to discover thier own "American Dream". These people have roots here that go back many generations; to call them old fat and deranged italians is just flat out wrong. I am the daughter of an Italian American family that busted thier ass in order to make a living and set a good example for myself and my sister. They showed us what work ethic was and how to raise a family. When I was a kid there was no such thing as a nanny or a cleaning lady, the family pitched in and worked together as a family.

And by the way, these kids could never be compared to the real italian mafia -- those guys are long gone and can never be replaced with this new school gang trash. And we don't think we're cool -- we know were cool.

The problem with all these yuppies coming in to the neighborhood is that you all think you have some supreme sense of entitlement but the fact is that most of you are ethnically challenged and have no respect for the authenticty of this neighborhood. Get over it, you're all just overpaying to live here, none if us natives really like you. Most of you have no spines.

When I was a kid in the 90's the gang wars were worse -- Gowanus and Red Hook always had beef. The statistics will not change. The Bloods and Crips have always been at war. Hello...gangs have been around forever. The fact that it has trickeld into our neighborhood from time to time is scary but nothing new. I bet most of you didn't know that in the mid-90's there was a shoot out in The park. This was before the rite aid went up and I had a clear view from my kitchen window. The reason why crime has become more apparent is because these kids from the projects know there a lot of affluent people who live here they scope you out for your iPads, iPhones, designer bags and fancy jewelry. They walk past us everyday thinking about who they're going to hit up next and have no fear of jail. These kids do not fight like men they fight like cowards because that is what they see every day in thier own living environments. Wake up people.

Anonymous said...

It's a shame what has happened to my old neighborhood. Growing up, we had our minor battles here and there, but when it came to sticking up for the neighborhood, we stuck together and had each other's back.

Some people didn't like the wiseguys in the neighborhood, but I'll tell you one thing, they kept it safe, a lot safer than the 76th precinct ever did.

Anonymous said...

To Anonymous regarding your comment on old, fat Italians, may I first say, we teach our young to be considerate of others, if you have nothing nice to say, say nothing at all, SHAME ON YOU!
Who lived here before has nothing to do with the existing problem. We need to work together, these young punks won't ask you how long are you living here before they take a shot at you.

Anonymous said...

All of the negative comments about the yuppies, the original Italian and Irish dwellers, and the mix of white, black, Hispanic, Asian, Middle Eastern population and so on is doing nothing but fostering unnecessary anger and frustration. We should embrace the cultural mix that we are so fortunate to live within.
We all live here and we all want Carroll Gardens to be a safe place for our children, our neighbors and ourselves.
These issues should be addressed by the police in a more urgent manner IMMEDIATELY, no question!
However, people who have lived here their whole lives, many on my block whom I adore, should not be so angry at the gentrification of the neighborhood, it has indeed, brought with it many beautiful things.
Please, let's not turn Carroll Gardens into the angry life-timer versus the new-comer!

Kim CM said...

To Anonymous, "fat old Italians" huh? If you had lived in the neighborhood your entire life as I did, you would never utter those words lol. With that being said, while the neighborhood has had many improvements and has had many wonderful things, places and people added to it, it HAS changed.Say what you will about those old Italian men (one is probably my dad), they kept us safe growing up.They gave us the wonderful opportunity to grow up as children should grow up, happy and safe. My grandfather used to play Bocce in Carroll Park and we would spend hours there, we loved it. If you don't like the old Italian men....well....move.

Anonymous said...

I happened to be walking up President Street from the F train on Monday when the shooting occured. I heard approximately 7 shots fired (2-3, then another 3-4). I ducked behind a car along with some other people who happened to be passing by and we saw a young african-american male with a black or grey hoodie run past at "escape" speed. He pulled his hoodie over his face as he was running by so we only saw a glimpse of his face but I thought he looked like an older teen or young adult. hard to say for sure but he was definitely not running to catch the train, he was hauling ass down the middle of President towards smith st as fast as I've ever seen anyone running. Pretty scary experience for me, and I've been shot at before. Funny how posters are already trying to blame De Blasio, he hasn't even been elected yet. With all of Bloomberg is the mayor and he, if anyone, is the one who should be held held responsible. Stop and frisk is counter productive and is no replacement for good police work and having a presence in the community. Even after the shooting, I have yet to see a cop in the park. Where are they?? Probably giving my car a ticket right now because somebody make a film on my street.Which is a whole other discussion.

Anonymous said...

You wouldn't dare utter a single word of what you just wrote to their face. You'd be picking your teeth off the ground!

Sebastian said...

Re: Anonymous at September 19, 2013 12:00 PM

I also saw a black teenager running towards Smith (as I've commented before) and I saw him pull the hood up over his head as he went by. But he was on the sidewalk. Maybe you saw him closer to Court Street if he was in the middle of President Street when you saw him. I was closer to Smith.

dash said...

When I lived in Red Hook we always got the shaft from the 76th and we assumed it was because they looked down on us, while taking care of Carroll Gardens. Come to find out they have the same disregard for everyone in their precinct. True their priority is to hand out parking tickets or catch people cycling on the sidewalk while trying to avoid being crushed by trucks and busses on Van Brunt Street. Time for the NYPD to become responsive to its citizenry. Very bad policing being done during Bloomberg's time.

Anonymous said...

I am a lifelong resident in Carroll Gardens for over 50 years. The old days are behind us so we should look for a different way to address this issue. To make things clear, the issue that should be focused on is how do we shutdown this potential Turf War between to groups of teenagers before innocent bystanders are hurt or worse. I wouldn't be surprised if at the center of the problem was a battle over the drug business centered out of Carroll Park. We as residents must do what we can to assist the police and make it known that we will not stand for this happening in our community. I am also concerned that if an innocent person is put in a position to defend themselves against of these armed teenagers that the innocent bystander may end up going to jail. The Police need to take a highly aggressive approach in and around Carroll Park. BTW, the prior comments about how safe the community was years ago is very accurate. I hope it doesn't come down to the local residents having t deal with this issue.

Anonymous said...

Firstly, the police are not going to do anything. Between the lack of manpower, the fear of getting sued for some racial nonsense, and further being hamstringed by far reaching bills that will hurt any proactive officer thanks to the city council and judge shinedlin. Couple that with a court system that lets offenders out quicker than it takes to fully process them and isee a return to the bad old days. Yeah, some cops are jerks. That goes with any profession. But a few bad cops aren't the ones committing the violent felonies that affect your quality of life. It is mostly black and Hispanic male youth. There, I said it. They are the ones committing the majority of the violent crimes but are of the protected class so the police won't touch them. Now that there is a perception, true or not, that the police won't stop anyone, get ready for more guns, aka ratchets, biscuits, to be carried. When you don't support the police, you by default support the perps. And before anyone says how crime is down, it's not. In the past, cops took reports for crimes regardless if there was a complainant or not to accurately account for crime. Now, unless there is someone willing to make a complaint, the police will no longer take a report. Smoke and mirrors. But that's ok. This city will burn because of overreaction by a few people and those wanting to score political points. We will now all suffer the consequences. My advice to anyone living in carrol gardens? Move.