The "old-timer vs. newcomer" controversy has been around for as long as anyone can remember. It certainly is not specific to Carroll Gardens, but the rapid changes in our neighborhood are obviously very upsetting to many who have lived here all their lives.
Yes, over the past ten years, Carroll Gardens has lost many of its mom-and-pop shops, the real estate prices have gone through the roof and the many new bars have attracted their fair share of loud patrons.
All that is true and sad. But blaming all of this on the new residents of the area is unfair and unproductive.
Rather, it would make more sense to get involved, get to know the old-timers as well as the newcomers on the block and work together to maintain what we all love about Carroll Gardens.
Though the writer of this particular letter obviously has a right to (anonymously) express his or her opinion, the very angry tone is more than a bit disturbing.
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68 comments:
I live on 2nd st. between Smith and Hoyt. The old-schhool Italians (leftovers) and us young upwardly mobile professionals (yuppies) get along great! We are a model street for how we can all learn to live together to make a great community.
Oh yes, the standing on corners and not moving to let people pass is a problem. My 89 year old mother tripped over a stroller! She has to say 'excuse me' and still they don't move!
I heard some old big belly man yelling about yuppies on Henry Street and how it was young liberals moving into the neighborhood that was causing global warming. I almost stopped to ask him to explain how liberals moving into the neighborhood would be the cause, but just wasn't worth it.
I live on President St and I agree with this author, the new crop of ppl (hipsters) in the neighborhood are rude, obnoxious, inconsiderate, and think they're "too cool for the room" bc they believe they're somehow different due to their/appearance meanwhile they all mostly look the same and have the same piss poor attitude. They don't raise their children properly which is evident by the way they act in public, how they talk back to their parents, how they interact with others and the incessant whining/temper tantrums they have when they're told NO. I wish they would all leave, they all come into the neighborhood bc it's the "trendy" area and they're willing to pay obscene rent prices which allows the landlords to be greedy and keep hiking up the asking price to the point where if you're not rent controlled, stabilized or the landlord himself you have no choice but to leave.
Couldn't have said it better myself; if these are the new faces of gentrif*cked Brooklyn, I'd very much like to spit in each and every one of them.
There. "Disturbing" enough?
This dumb idiot isn't worth validating with a post of any kind. You are leftovers if you didn't manage to own something whilst your neighborhood was a fucking dump. Your mother tripped over a stroller? Maybe she shouldn't be outside. You're complaining about people being in your way? You live in New York Fucking City you moron! Fuck off somewhere else or deal with it, you have literally got NO choice.
I agree with the person pinning up these posters. I do feel the newcomers are pretty arrogant. I miss the mom and pop stores that peppered the neighborhood with character and quality. And while the new restaurants are welcome, a complete disregard for what was is not. What was once great about this neighborhood is gone. Carroll Gardens has lost its character and is now disneyland and homogenized.
You know as a former Carroll Gardens Native I'd like to weigh in by saying, I have observed the dynnamic of the (YUPPIE) vs. the ( NATIVES) & It works as well as "the odd couple" did since "Oscar reperesents "THE YUPPIE" & "FELIX THE NATIVE" you see the old school people have values set not only in family but in keeping your property clean and shopping at your com padres ( friends) stores.
The new breeders leave their families in their hometowns, so home-making (cleaning, cooking) not a priority & shopping in most convenient place since they seem to stand less on principal & more on instant gratification with a scoop of entitlement ( since they are willing to shell out 3'gs for rent! I personally did not vibe with the new feel of the hood, so I left since the old world charm was the draw for me & it is soooo ... gone. Peace and Good luck!
I totally agree with the rampant poor parenting by many of the new arrivals - I cringe to think what these obnoxious children will be like as adults. Where's the discipline - and the parents aren't even embarrassed. Seems like there's always some kid having a melt-down or tantrum in public no matter where you go.
Moved here a year and a half ago.
Never called any existing tenants of the area any general names - although I have found the older group normally staked outside of Smith Union Market to be particularly scowl-y and inhospitable.
Got no kids.
Don't smoke, leave beer bottles on the street, have stoop sales, etc.
No dog to pooh and pee.
God's wrath is upon us?
Old people shaking their fists at fast trains. How shortsighted to think that this neighborhood was always and will always be theirs.
I couldn't care less, but thanks for the warm neighborhood welcome.
read a little history - when the Italians (and pretty much every other new ethnic group) came to NYC they were vilified for upsetting the established order and looked down upon for being uncultured or abrasive. it's really not that uncommon of an occurrence, just the way humanity has and always will (sadly) relate to one another.
Anonymous at 6:19 gave a fine demonstration of the qualities itemized in the posted flyer.
If the long time residents really believed in their neighborhood then they should have bought it when it was incredibly undervalued.
The rest of the ranting sounds like old people complaining about the younger generation, the same way they always have and always will. Heck, I'm 32 and moved here ten years ago and I complain about the new transplants the same way people complained about me ten years ago. Well, they also complain about me because I'm not white. Love that old world charm!
Sorry, it goes both ways. To all the haters out there, remember this: who are the folks selling their homes? The very folks who are complaining, yet cashing in, walking away with 1,2,3 million dollars. And the folks who cash in, renting to the all the banks in the neighborhood (case in point: Good Food). I've been living here since the late 80s, and remember when Clinton St & Smith St was unsafe to walk at night. The neighborhood is changing, that's what happens. Look around, it's a vibrant community with kids, families, crossing guards who know your name. It's not perfect, what is? So suck it up, and if you don't like it, move. It could be a hell of alot worse.
I so agree. Strollers should not be used as a weapon! I can't count the number of times I've been rolled over.
The comments from many people on both sides on this "debate" reflect poorly on their upbringing and values. I hope the name-calling, insults and rants are merely the product of sad, pathetic internet trolls sitting in basements around the neighborhood.
Hard to get to know people when they lump all young residents into the same category...or when you say hello and get dirty looks. ...
Real intelligent reply, you sound very educated and reasonable. Note the sarcasm
Ps
The neighborhood was NEVER a "dump" as you called it..... it was filled with family, friends, ppl who knew each other and would say hi in passing just out of the respect of seeing you in the neighborhood. It was filed with ppl that bothered to know your name, carry an elderly woman's bags from the store to her home, considerate ppl who use the words "excuse me" "Thank you" "you're welcome" , ppl who would gladly reach into their pocket for someone else if necessary without looking for anything else in return. Now that doesn't exist bc of the influx of these hipster douches who have no interest in anything but themselves, and for you to trash the people that were living here shows exactly what I'm saying is true.
You immediately start off with "this dumb idiot" (a double negative), "your mother tripped over a stroller? Maybe she shouldn't be outside"... Really so ppl are no longer allowed to walk around bc you SAY SO? Who are you to tell ANYBODY (especially someone born and raised in the area) stay home? When a person says "EXCUSE ME" YOU MOVE!!!! PERIOD END OF STORY it's COMMON COURTSEY you don't need to be from a specific area to comprehend that concept. Lastly NO WE DON'T LIVE IN "New York Fucking City" YOU'RE THE MORON. ... We live in SOUTH BROOKLYN to avoid New York Fucking City, we live and were raised/born and raised in SOUTH BROOKLYN, we planted our roots in SOUTH BROOKLYN, we were here before it was "trendy" and WE LOVE SOUTH BROOKLYN. ... What we DON'T love or appreciate is ppl coming in and trying to strip away everything our neighborhood was and stood for over the years. If something isn't broken you don't try to "fix"it.
I've lived in the neighborhood for about five years now, and even though my wife and I are 41 we'd probably be called hipsters by the old folks here... We're very lucky to have an apartment here- it's the best place we've lived in NYC- we're only able to afford it since out landlord has never raised the rent since we took over the lease from friends that moved away. We take care of the place.
I can see where the flier-maker is coming from. We can't afford to eat at most of the new restaurants here and it broke our hearts when Good Food closed.
We have a dog and we walk it on the curb and pick up after it. I hate seeing people let their dog pee on steps and gates- it makes all dog owners look bad.
But also- It it really grinds my ass to get lumped into a group of people because I'm younger (and rent instead of own a multi-million dollar brownstone) and have old folks yell at me for no reason at all.
Just the other night some older woman started yelling at me because I was picking up after my dog on the public curb near her house, and went on cursing at me about cars parking in front of her house. I don't own a car.
Anyways- some of our neighbors are great, others are angry a-holes that just want to stand around and gossip and complain. Give other people a chance then make up your mind.
I've been here 20 years now, love the neighborhood so much and have been very happy here. But gentrification happens everywhere and people are always resistant to any sort of change. I remember getting yelled at circa 1997 by a drunk "old schooler" as my friends and I we coming out of the one neighborhood bar we had at the time (Hennessy's, I think? Corner of Carroll and Court below where Prema Yoga is now) - it was a very similar rant as the one on the flier.
I grew up in DC and the same thing has happened all over the 'hoods down there, too. It's part of life.
Cultural habits do change over time, sometimes for the good, other times, non-so-good. As a transplant into my third decade of growing roots here, I have watched the old cultural habit of sweeping your sidewalk fall off decade-after-decade to the point that you can rightfully say Carroll Gardens is indeed a dirtier community that is was under the old-world habits-- habits that coxed building owners out into their community to cleanup each day, doing something for the benefit of the whole community. You didn't need to go to a bar to connect with others; our cleaner Sesame Street stoops provided places for daily public gathering (adults and kids alike) and inspired many others to want to be part of that community and make it their home.
I think the posted notice is helpful in instigating a communities reassessment of just what kind of cultural habits should be fostered in a changing community that must be shared by so many people because not all change makes for a viable and vibrant community.
Yes, there are still some around who still see pushing a broom around on the sidewalk as a more valuable form of physical activity than biking and jogging. Maybe those passing by will begin to see that value once again too.
@2ndPlace -- I think I've had the same woman yell at me a lot recently! I'm so particular about where my dog "goes" and my husband and I ALWAYS pick up after our dog. The funny thing is, on 2nd place, many "old timers" have dogs!
Some people on my block are wonderful, some have made assumptions about me. I came from an Italian community outside of NYC. I worked my ass off to be able to afford a high rent in a great Italian community in NYC. I love it here. I loved Good Food... but I didn't love the scowls in my direction from the same type that yells at me about my dog. The "yuppies" won't feel comfortable loyally shopping at your favorite stores and eating at your favorite restaurants if you make us feel unwelcome!
Luckily, the shop owners are friendly to anyone who wants to come in. Everyone at Esposito's, Caputo's x2, Vinny's, Court Street Pastry, etc.etc., are welcoming.
Sometimes the "yuppies" don't say hi because we're doing exactly what the "old-timers" are doing -- assuming. I assume the older residents hate me, so I am too shy to say hi. But, I talk regularly with my neighbors and say hi to those I've talked with before. It's a two-way street here, and we could all be a bit more kind and mindful of our neighbors.
Signs like this don't help... but I would caution that it's from one or two people in the neighborhood, and likely doesn't reflect everyone's views!
I love this neighborhood and moved here for the combination of old and new. I won't apologize for working hard to be successful -- I'm sure your kids are just as successful!
Also, my old neighbor used to tell me about the times 20 years ago when she couldn't sleep because there was a bar on the corner... everyone would get drunk then fight on the corner when the bar closed. Hmm....
America the melting pot?!? Now if we could only get the government to build the fence at the southern border and around this section of brooklyn!?!
I've heard stories from old timers about "the good old days" when a person of color couldn't walk down the street in Carroll Gardens without being chased by kids with bats. How there were rumbles and shootings in Carroll Park. I remember a kid being shot in the head in Carroll Park in the late 90s. Oh how I miss those days.
It is as though the old schoolers were here for the battle of brooklyn in the revolutionary war... but their parents were just off the boat and in another 50 years it will change again. That is the beauty NY. My block is full of hard working people raising families. Call them what you will.
P.S.S.
One of the other main reasons to live in SOUTH BROOKLYN is to AVOID CITY HUSTLE AND BUSSELL, AVOID THE OBNOXIOUS INCONSIDERATE CROWDS OF PPL ONLY WORRIED ABOUT THEMSELVES, AND AVOID CITY PRICES.
I can go to Met Food on Henry St. and get 2 whole half loaf of bread heros with quality boar's head cold cuts sliced on the spot and a drink for no more than 750 each (Max) in the city you get what they consider a "hero" a pre made and wrapped sandwich that sits in their fridge for God knows how long and they charge you 8 bucks for that alone or if you do get real cold cuts they're pre sliced and mostly dried out.
Normally I hold my tongue on these discussions. But this time I'm just disgusted. I've lived here for more than 12 years. My wife has been here for 25. I'm actually partly Italian, but I'm not welcome. I know that. That was explained to me in 2005. I never complained about D'Amico's coffee roasting even though it made me sick to my stomach. I'm glad they've found a new home for their roaster, and are able to comply with the laws that make the neighborhood habitable for everyone.
I sweep my stoop and sidewalk. I shovel well past the edge of my lot. If I know a building is vacant I do my best to make sure its sidewalk is clear too.
I know most of the people on my block. They know me. Even if we don't speak the same language, we greet each other. My family spends as many evenings on our stoop as possible.
I am a good neighbor. People that write signs like this and those that sympathize with them are not.
I don't care if you were born here.
I don't care if you were raised here.
The neighborhood is changing because your "neighbors" sold out. They sold their buildings and moved away.
A nice older fellow up the street passed away recently. His heirs are selling the building immediately. If you want to be mad at someone, be mad at them. I was friends with their father. I will welcome whoever moves in. Maybe you all should try the same?
I'm 33 and have lived in Carroll Gardens for 9 years. I wasn't born here, but I'm by no means new to the neighborhood either, and honestly I can't see where the writer of this letter is coming from. This kind of letter IS NOT community building and has no place being hung in Carroll Park or any other public place in OUR neighborhood. We are neighbors, and posting sweeping generalizations about "TRANSPLANTS," in New York City of all places, is the polar opposite of helpful. Neighborhoods change (and most much more quickly and detrimentally than Carrol Gardens it might add.) The sun also rises each morning. If you must hate, please do so in private by your sad, lonely self.
Sorry but I can't take anyone seriously who still uses the phrase "histpers." It's about as relevant and accurate as calling everyone in their 20s hippies.
The entire city is getting more expensive. Did you really think this neighborhood was going to be immune to that? It's located 3 stops to Manhattan. You should be glad it's not nearly as bad as Williamsburg.
As someone else said, the people complaining about it are also the very same ones jacking up the rents or cashing out.
This is what happens in NYC, nothing ever stays the same. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of these people complaining were also ruining the neighborhood for the generation before them too.
I don't understand this anger. I live in the neighborhood because I appreciate its beauty. I think Carroll Gardens is the best place to live in the city.
I'm nice to my neighbors, I'm not flashing gaudy wealth, I love the library... what's different about me? Why do old school CG residents assume all newcomers are selfish jerks or that we have anything in common with each other? It's ridiculous. You'd think newcomers had committed some kind of crime to warrant letters like this in a neighborhood.
I mean for Pete's sake — we're dropping bombs in the Middle East, Ebola is on the loose... and some people can't come to terms with hipsters? It's not right!
At least it was printed. The old person in my hood wrote me an handwritten note about how we hang our US Flag was inappropriate. If you are reading this- sorry it was left out overnight after a July 4th party...we screwed up- yes it should have been folded up and stored away as you wrote.
I've been here since the late 80's when the only food delivery options were pizza or Me and My Egg Roll. There are times I still feel like a newcomer. One thing I did do was try to get involved or at least keep informed about what was happening in our community. People are investing significant sums in their homes but with rare exceptions I see the same faces over and over at the various community meetings. Whether you live in public housing, new condo, or a three million dollar townhouse we are all going to be affected equally by the impacts of the potential rezoning, the stench from the Superfund clean up, crowded subway platforms, crowded schools, etc. Surely there must be some common ground. And if you're posting on this blog then you already know about many of the meetings.
I'm an 'old timer'. I think the real problem is that most of the 'youngins' ' movin in were raised in cul de sacs and have absolutely no idea how to live in an urban area. Too bad there aren't instructions given out to people moving in. The majority are rude and entitled. Can't wait for you all to move back home.
The very folks who are complaining are the very folks who are cashing out. How's this for an idea: next time heirs choose to sell that brownstone, sell it to a neighborhood family who can no longer afford to live here...say $350,000 instead of $3 million. Instead of telling the small shop owner the rent is being tripled because TD bank is offering $50,000 a month in rent as opposed to the poor bastard who is struggling to pay $3,000 a month, keep the neighborhood shopkeeper. Suddenly, I hear crickets...
you know what would make me happy, if parents stopped letting their kids ride scooters IN THE SUPERMARKET. what a shitty example of parenting.
What would make me happier is if parents stopped riding scooters in the supermarket! I'm not kidding.
Can we also get the parents to stop their children from using chalk to drawn on the WWI Memorial in the park. Very disrespectful.
I've lived here for six years and I love it--it's a great place to have a family, and even as a transplant I've made many friends in the neighborhood. My family and I are leaving town though, because my landlord who owns our building and has lived in Carroll Gardens since he was a child keeps raising our rent, and has pushed out good, long-term tenants in the name of making more money. I understand that money makes the world go round, but I have to agree with the commenters who note that the loudest complainers are the ones cashing in on the newcomers. If you charge snooty, entitled, rich person rent prices, you will get snooty, entitled, rich tenants. Have fun with those people!
Could they look any more moronic?
Ugh...
I live on the same block as porkeypete. I'm adding a +1 for how it's a great block because we all get along -- old and new. Sure, there are going to be disagreements, but vitriolic missives like this flyer aren't going to change anything. By the way, hello, neighbor!
I love how almost everybody here is afraid to post under their real name and have to go anonymous. Nothing shows your conviction on a topic or your pair of balls better than going anonymous, nice to hide behind a computer I suppose.
How terrible. I left Brooklyn when I got married almost 40 years ago. I moved to the South and was picked on for being from the North. I cried and said the people from the South were horrible for picking on me. They hated me because of where I was from. However, there were a few people who extended the hand of friendship and accepted me for who I was, not where I came from or that I was an "outsider."
I think it's terrible to treat outsiders this way. No one owns a neighborhood or a town. Change and progress are ways of life. People can live anywhere they want in the United States. That is what being a free country is all about. How can you say you believe in the principles of Freedom and all that America stands for when you behave so inhospitably toward outsiders. And don't give the crap that they think they're better and all of that. No one can make you feel bad about yourself without your permission. Instead of condemning people for wanting to enjoy Brooklyn by living there, you should embrace them. I remember how ugly Smith Street was when I was a kid. I remember how dangerous certain areas were. Surely, no one misses that. I can deal with a cigarette butt much more easily than an armed robber.
Katia, thanks for posting this, and for starting the conversation! The insipid nitwit who made these signs has obviously not tried to have a civil conversation with folks they decry, and they most certainly haven't brushed up on spelling and grammar. I find this whole attitude of us-vs-them sad and tired, and it's something I've heard throughout my nine years in the nabe. Some of these "old-timers" who hate anyone/anything not Italian need a history lesson: South Brooklyn was a Norwegian neighborhood and an Irish neighborhood before the Italians came here. I'll quote our president: "You didn't build that." Every neighborhood changes, and you either deal with the change or you leave (which was a lesson I learned after eleven tumultuous years in the East Village). I'd like to echo the refrain of folks who say that they see the same faces at community meetings, because for all the hue and cry from "lifers," I've never encountered one willing to volunteer in Carroll Park: every single person who does gardening or events there--for the benefit of the COMMUNITY at large--is one of these allegedly evildoing transplants. Yes, many parents are raising horrid little ill-behaved children, but not all of them. Just like many folks born and raised here are imperious and hateful to what they see as "outsiders," but not all of them. Both of those types of people are disgusting in my eyes. I nod and smile and say hello and hold doors for ANYONE I encounter, even if I think they hate my guts for being middle aged, gay, single, and of a different ethnic background. It's New York freaking City...isn't that what we ALL should do? I guess at least we should be glad that "NBC sticks" are a thing of the past (though the author of this anonymous screed may well wish they were still a "thing").
Only it's not Ny city lol it's South Brooklyn and the people coming here now are hear to not pay city prices or bc it's "trendy". Only problem is all the landlords know you're moving here for those reasons and that you'll pay obscene monthly rent prices for the convenience of being so close to the city/subway so they Jack up the prices. It puts the ppl that grew up here that don't have the luxury of owning their building in a position to have to move or have to get a second job just to keep up with rent. Not to mention so of the ppl who have lived in this area are living off of pension and social security so it's not like they're capable of working at their age what are they supposed to do? Now they have to leave where they grew up and uproot their lives at that point in their lives bc of the influx of ppl willing to be OK with being robbed by the landlords? Is that right or fair or OK to you?
If you can afford rent in South Brooklyn these days and you're not rent controlled or stabilized you can afford a house/mortgage so what sense does it make to waste 36k on renting (per year) when you can own and pay less in mortgage payments to actually own something that you can call your own?
Also you don't see the people who lived here all their lives cleaning the park or planting gardens because they have jobs and families to take care of and those who don't are of an age or with health issues that prevent them from doing such things, did you ever consider that? I have 2 jobs I worked 9 am to midnight between both of them on Mon Tues Wed this week and till 2am Friday morning went to my main job instead of going home and slept at work bc I had to be up and on post at 7 am yesterday until 5pm. I also have my second job tonight at 630 as well as working 9am to 11pm coming up on Monday so pls tell me when I should volunteer at the park? On the 1 Sunday I have off? Or today the couple hours I have before work should I go and not spend time with my daughter and wife?
These are all things you're not taking into consideration.
They sold their buildings and moved away because THEY DIDN'T LIKE THE CLIENTELE COMING IN LOL. Or bc they were later in life and wanted to enjoy their retirement not having to worry about ppls complaints about leaks or hot water ect they worked hard and earned that right.
The problem everyone seems to have isn't really with 'transplants' vs 'natives,' but with the increasing Manhattanization of the outer boroughs. Instead of moving to Westchester or Long Island, people are moving to Brooklyn to start families, and treat the neighborhoods like the suburbs, letting their children run wild on their scooters. Everyone is now paying Manhattan prices because Manhattan has come to you, along with its anonymous, inconsiderate attitudes.
I was ready a post in facebook about a flyer left in Carroll park about the new comers hipsters yuppies they are called. I must say that I agree with the writer of the flyer. Most of us do have some kind of hatred towards them. Some are nice and others who are down right rude. I am 3rd generation burn her. My family is here over 110 years in Brooklyn. I have seen my neighborhood transform over the past 20 years. Some good and some not. I have seen many schools close down. Not to many Catholic schools left at all. I am not a fan of public schools at all. To me the essence of the neighborhood is gone. No one sitting on the stoops in the Summer time. Kids playing outside. No more italian store left mostly organic. Everything has become expensive from the food to the rent. I am lucky that my family owns the house we live in or we would be boxed out. I feel that most of the transplant do not understand the values that we grew up with . I don't agree with the writer for posting flyers in the park. Put I do agree with what he or she is saying . I feel that this is becoming like the city. And we are not the city. Brooklyn has a scared charm to it and I feel that it should stay that way. I know things do change but this kind of change is very hard to swallow. Now most of is are getting pushed down our throats with what the yuppies want. I can't show my kids what I grew up with. They feeling and passion what it was like growing up here. When anyone asked me where I come from I say with no hesitation I say I come from brooklyn. I have pride where I come from. My great Grandfather came from Sicily to here and we never left . I would like to keep some part of the neighborhood intact.real estate todo mom and pop stores away hospitals away. What is left for us
As a native NY-er with Italian roots in Brooklyn and other Brooklyn roots going back 150+ years, I don't agree with you. You can't compare these entitled spoiled BABIES to immigrants coming to America to seek a better life for their families, who escaped poverty, war and oppression. In today's culture NY embraces new immigrants because they contribute to its rich and varied culture. This has been the case for a long time now - What are you basing this on, old information? And BTW, these new hipster transplants are NOT an immigrant group. They come to NY not to make a better life but to make the "scene" and freeload off their parents. They have no ideals. They are so self absorbed and bereft of any real integrity that they don't even embrace the American Dream. They suck off of their parents and the neighborhood. They don't respect anything, so they crap all over everyone and everything that isn't them. THEY are the ones that look down on the native NY-ers as if they are the "uncultured, abrasive" ones. THEY are the ones that want the natives to just go away so they can have the whole place to themselves. We natives would not be against them being here if they left us alone and respected us. If they fit into our environment instead of coming in and acting like they own the place and we are all insignificant slugs who should just go away....And take our mom and pop stores and 150 plus years of culture and stick them up our asses. Nice piss poor attitude in this bunch - They deserve those flyers and WORSE.
Honestly I don't know how you can do that. I would never live anywhere I'd have to work two jobs to live. We don't have quite the same level of urbanity or as extensive a subway system in the Philadelphia area but there are very few places you need to work two jobs to live and still quite a few places with real community over here. Many places are like living in a small town or small city that happens to have a train or trolley line running through it and rowhomes throughout. You can buy a normal house in a stable and normal area with real community for under 100K in most places and a much nicer house in that community for around 300K (I'm talking 3+ bedrooms, 2,000+sq ft) and even less in some areas. It allows us to keep the community in some places that places where housing is more expensive and people can't buy on the same street they grew up on without having 2 jobs.
You seriously can't blame people for selling houses at market value. It's not their fault that the value has gone up so high that the only people who will buy it at that price are rich. You can't blame the natives for the neighborhood changing. Those hipster transplants who have decided to take over are the reason the values have gone up in the first place so they are the ones to blame for forcing the change in the neighborhood. Don't try turning it around and acting like the people owning the houses should take a lower price or stop complaining. That's ridiculous!
Me too, especially since they will be the first people to desert NY when things eventually change and it suddenly doesn't feel like a trendy place to be anymore. They come in, ruin the place and then inevitably will leave. Where were these people in the dark days of the '70s and '80s when NY had drug and crime issues? Nowhere to be found.....Back in those days their parents were talking down about NYC and could't care less about the place. One day it will all change again and when they leave there will be thousands of apartments for rent at cheap prices....
Both my jobs are Union jobs, can't leave bc I can't leave the medical coverage on the table. Also I'm waiting to get the call from sanitation and if I get that job I'm certainly not looking to bypass that, DSNY is the best city job there is and it'll allow me to cut back on the hours I'm doing at my second job and replace my current full time job
Also it's work ethic, my entire family busted their assess to try to make my life better and they have they instilled in me RESPECT, HARD WORK, how to carry myself with DIGNITY and that work ethic previously mentioned all that is far more important than anything monetary.
Well I politely smile and say "hi how are you" in passing while walking my dog and typically get ignored or this look as if to say "who is this guy and why is he speaking to me". I've seen these hipster douches walking in my wife's direction as she's pushing our daughter in the stroller and not move to let her pass, even after an "excuse me" from my wife. I've had the displeasure of seeing one verbally disrespect an elderly woman (family friend on the block) who asked him to please not let his dog go on her tree, I had to "verbally correct" him and his attitude. I had to shout down from my window at a group of ppl just last week bc they were being obnoxiously loud with no consideration for any of the ppl on the block in their homes trying to sleep (they were keeping my wife and I up, and we had just put our daughter down for the night) so the experiences haven't been good.
From reading all of these comments, I have to say the award for rudeness really goes to the natives. By the way, Carroll Gardens is nice, but calling it "trendy" is really a stretch. This is not the Brooklyn neighborhood people move to "make the scene." Yes, our neighborhood may be changing, but because of the attitudes I've read on flyers in Carroll Park and here on this blog, you've lost all of my sympathies. You're all stuck in the past pinning away for a time that I can only imagine never really existed. But what do I know about it, I'm just a transplant.
When movies and TV shows constantly come here to film it makes it trendy, ppl see the area on TV and the big screen. Ppl take notice of all that, to say ppl are stuck in the past is incorrect we were brought up a certain way, we move when ppl say excuse me, we all knew each other and would help when necessary, you said hello or gave a polite nod, if a person from outside the neighborhood started trouble you didn't even have to be friends with that person but helped bc the guy starting was an outsider. There were values in the neighborhood, you never spoke back to somebody (especially an elder) you never started trouble with store owners bc they knew your parents and wouldn't get away with it, you never mouthed off to someone cause you knew there was a good chance it would get back to your parents cause the whole neighborhood knew each other and you didn't want to embarrass your parents.
That DID exist they aren't false or over embellished memories that was REALITY and that's what we miss, today you can't even sit on your stoop and play music anymore bc somebody will undoubtedly complain about the noise and ane cops will come to chase you away. My mother aunt uncle cousins and a couple friends from the block all used to sit on the stoop for hours just bullshiting and wasting the night away, no phones no candy crush no noise complaints
As a native NY-er with Italian roots in Brooklyn and other Brooklyn roots going back 150+ years, I don't agree with you. You can't compare these entitled spoiled BABIES to immigrants coming to America to seek a better life for their families, who escaped poverty, war and oppression. In today's culture NY embraces new immigrants because they contribute to its rich and varied culture. This has been the case for a long time now - What are you basing this on, old information? And BTW, these new hipster transplants are NOT an immigrant group. They come to NY not to make a better life but to make the "scene" and freeload off their parents. They have no ideals. They are so self absorbed and bereft of any real integrity that they don't even embrace the American Dream. They suck off of their parents and the neighborhood. They don't respect anything, so they crap all over everyone and everything that isn't them. THEY are the ones that look down on the native NY-ers as if they are the "uncultured, abrasive" ones. THEY are the ones that want the natives to just go away so they can have the whole place to themselves. We natives would not be against them being here if they left us alone and respected us. If they fit into our environment instead of coming in and acting like they own the place and we are all insignificant slugs who should just go away....And take our mom and pop stores and 150 plus years of culture and stick them up our asses. Nice piss poor attitude in this bunch - They deserve those flyers and WORSE
They DID buy when it was undervalued, they sold when the neighborhood started changing for the worse or they died and their children sold bc they had no interest in dealing with life as a landlord. Maybe they wanted to get a good start/have a nice nest egg for their family to start with and not have to struggle the way their parents/grandparents did in the past you can't hold that against them.
[Lest anyone think my previously deleted comments were something I couldn't stand behind, I want to clarify: I posted them at 5:30 in the morning after a twelve hour shift at one of the five jobs I try to hold down to make a living, as listed below. I'd made a number of typos and a couple of unclear points, so I wanted to clean it up and re-post when I was less groggy. The second one was just correcting the date from 1899 to 1898. So here goes...]
Nearly every single comment since I posted my own (NON-anonymous comment, on which I agree with Steve P.--if you're going to mouth off one way or the other, at least be brave enough to put a name/face to your words) has been to attack me and to lump me into some category of lazy rich folks, when I'm anything but. I'm ALSO about to be priced out of this neighborhood--and I only live in a crappy one-bedroom on Luquer Street. A big problem is that so many people want to spit on folks who come here NOT to raise the rent, and NOT because it was "hip" when we came here (and no, it's still not a hipster haven--check out Williamsburg for that dreadful vibe), and NOT because we have loads of money, but because we liked the COMMUNITY vibe here, even though a lot of the "community" only seems to want folks who are exactly like them. That's not a community I want to live in: I enjoy being around people who aren't just like me, and that's what living in a city is all about. And sorry to report this, but Brooklyn--and SOUTH Brooklyn--became a part of New York City in 1898. Fact. We ARE in New York City, just like Staten Island and Queens and the Bronx are. And every neighborhood in and around that city changes, both for bad and for good. Someone suggested that I have time to volunteer in the park because I don't have to work? I have no less than five freelance jobs that I am constantly hustling to fulfill in order to make my rent and utilities here...and I still have the time to give back to my community, instead of just complaining about folks I've never spoken to. Perhaps if you don't want to be ignorantly stereoptyped, you shouldn't do it to others. Steve P, I'd be glad to grab a cup of coffee (or tea, if that's not too offensive!) with you sometime so that you can understand that there are "newcomers" here who are struggling financially AND love the neighborhood AND find time to give back AND don't have spiteful feelings toward anyone who didn't grow up here/isn't just like them. It might actually make you view some of us as human beings, instead of stereotypes that you lump into a singular category when there are many, many different varieties of us. It's absurd that you make such generalizations about EVERY person who wasn't born in this neighborhood.
I don't think many posting here actually know what a 'hipster' in Brooklyn is. They're not buying brownstones on Clinton street, they're sharing a converted warehouse in Bushwick. A clean indication that this backlash is more about any kind of 'outsiders' than any specific class of people.
i've read many of the comments posted here, and i'm not surprised by the tenor of the discussion.
my wife and i have been living here for just over five years. we're on the same block as mazzola's.
we're part of a wave of change to the neighborhood, while we've also witnessed a more recent wave of change - over the last two to three years - when it wasn't just new restaurants popping up in the neighborhood, but the mom and pop stores being swapped out for banks and yoga boutiques.
as outsiders, one has to acknowledge that it's disruptive, and one has to be respectful to those who were here before.
to build a better sense of community starts with dialogue, and that starts with the very first interactions that any outsider has with people in the neighborhood - the landlords, property owners and business owners.
we were so fortunate that our landlords care about the neighborhood. they are fourth generation carroll gardeners, so when we moved in, they showed us their favorite shops, introduced us to some of their friends who own local businesses, and helped us get to know the "old-timers" on our block.
and when we ventured out on our own, having our first dinner at frankie's on court street, and our first brunch at boca lupo's on henry, we were welcomed to the neighborhood - those were words that were actually expressed to us - and, in some cases, business owners actually gave us a gift.
we were very impressed, and we try to remember that feeling to this day.
we love carroll gardens because of that community feeling, and while we are here, we do our best to contribute to it, despite the less appealing changes that have become more and more pronounced.
so, for the outsiders who feel alienated from the neighborhood, i advise taking a simple first step by simply saying hi to your neighbors. get to know them, or at least introduce yourself to them. it makes a world of difference.
Beautifully said, Chance Bliss.
All new friendships start with a simple "hi".
When I moved here in 1985, I felt privileged to get to know the older Italians on my block. i loved listening to their stories, was thrilled when they showed me yellowed photographs of their childhood in "Red Hook" and took the time to sit next to them on their stoop to keep them company for a bit when they could no longer walk.
There was Francis, Laura and her sisters Annette and Grace, their brother Lou, and so many others who sadly passed and left a real void on the block.
The same is true for all the shopkeepers in the neighborhood who made me feel welcome and who knew my kids names, knew what kind of cold cuts we liked and how we liked our coffee ground.
It's all about acknowledging each other, about respect and realizing that we all love this neighborhood in our own way.
I really find all the comments posted here incredibly interesting and insightful. Glad we started the conversation. Perhaps we can all make it a point today to say 'hi' to someone in the neighborhood and to shop at one of the locally owned stores. Let's introduce ourselves and let's see what happens.
I found this thread while looking for same issue on gentrification. I live in Somerville, MA, a native, life-long resident.
The root of these problems is developers, Wallstreet money, and shortsighted, mismanagement of municipal government.
Same is going on in San Francisco and other big cities across the nation. It is due to tech jobs coming to cities and the master plan of making it the most desired place to live. Few wish to live in the suburbs, since most development is now being done in cities.
I agree with comments by locals because they are most accurate. The entitled attitudes of the yuppies has reached a point of intolerance. They are trying to do everything in their power to drive locals out. Our family has lived 3 generations in this house, I have tenants who live in 2 units. They are intrusive and meddlesome. Mom and dad spoiled them rotten and they hate us because of our working class roots and the fact they can't get in on the investment gold mine. But fact is, many locals would be just as happy if our home values were low, because we don't speculate on other homes, and flip as yuppies do for fast cash. I attend town meetings and share my concerns. On line, I am more open because I can remain anonymous. It has nothing to do with having a set of balls, and more to do with knowing there would be some malicious attack on our way of life, if we reveal who we are-- if you get into a battle with a local, they may shout but their not out to ruin your life behind your back as the elite. Look at the ruination wall street has done. That's where most of the problems lie. They are also buying up a lot of Boston area properties as new landlords, so who's really driving this war on housing? Politicians have the power to harness the spread of gentrification, but there are too many Realtors and other influences that stand in the way of affordable housing.
I lived in CG for 20 yrs. loved the locals. When our family grew we were priced out. Live in Jackson Heights now. Safe, nice big apartments, year round farmers market. We are happy. Check out Jackson Heights!
You're an asshole
You'll get old and the new people will move in and I hope they push your ass into on coming traffic
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