"To those posters here who have lived in CG for 40 years, you're not newbies anymore, so don't worry, we're not talking about you. It's nice to have you here. From what I've observed recently (and at the risk of making a generalization for which I will probably be bashed), some (not all) of the newbies who complain about everything appear to belong to the Gen-X and Gen-Y generations who feel they are "special." It's a mindset that's been written about extensively in recent years. Let's face it..they were brought up differently from the rest of us. If they don't like something, they feel they compelled to complain -- which is OK -- free country. The difference is that they feel they are entitled to a solution to their satisfaction. I am not talking about major issues like crime which merit all of our complaints and attention; I'm talking about matters like church bells, burnt coffee smells, and the like that we're discussing here. Forget about everyone else, I want what I want and I want it now. I'm sorry, kids. CG is a diverse neighborhood. You are here to live in a strong, vibrant, established community and to learn to live with people who may be different from you. It is not all about YOU. So relax, enjoy our neighborhood, contribute your talents, and above all, be a good neighbor."
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11 comments:
Katia, this comment just sounds like another way one of the "old timers" gets to tell people to shut up. We live in a different time now and I like that people can say what they feel. I think glorifying this comment as "the best comment of the day" is allowing someone, whoever this guy was, to try to roll back the new voices everyone, not just the new generations have, for expressing themselves fully. And we all have the opportunity to do it.
If you look beneath the surface of this guy's comment, there is obviously a disgruntled and threatened old-timer. And the old-timer attitude is, generally, "if you don't like it, tough. Don't make me call my brother Carmine to take care of this." If you want to encourage this kind of "old-timey" attitude where people are told to shut up or get out, that's your choice. I think every form of expression is great - and we can all choose to read, ignore, respond, or react. It's all our own responsibility.
We all need to be responsible with our comments, but beneath this comment that you have glorified, Katia, is an old-timer who has found another way to express his contempt for the "newbies" and his fear at the changing times. It's just a territorial attitude. Like an angry dog.
Oh brother. Here we go again with the stereotyping from the other side of the argument.
Can someone tell me why its assumed that the person who complained is a "newbie"? What an absurd assumption. Aren't "oldies" the ones who get extra sensitive about smells, sounds, etc? Why does it matter who said it, especially pertaining to how long they've been in the neighborhood for?
someone has to much time in their hands to do nothing but complain about the most stupidest things. Get over yourselves! this world does not revolve around to your wants.
Brats move to the woods then where most of the newbies come from and need to go back.
To the first commenter:
You are looking a little too far "beneath the surface." Who the hell is Carmine?
Look, it's simple. If you move somewhere that's different from what you're used to, try to adapt instead of asking the entire place to adapt to you. You wouldn't move to Egypt and then demand they get rid of the morning call to prayer, would you?
Obviously you have a right to a certain quality of life and to complain when it's been infringed upon, but roasting coffee beans is hardly disturbing the peace. This has nothing to do with "newbies" and "old timers." People buy and drink coffee and have for generations - everywhere.
You don't have to shut up, but think before you speak.
-A "newbie" of 9 years.
You know, I'm a Gen-Xer new to this neighborhood. And I moved here for *both* generations that dominate this area.
I like the old timers and their ways. I could do without some of their racism or the isolationism. But of course they feel threatened. They *are*. Thier neighborhood is changing at breakneck speed. And of course they benefit from the rising rents. But that's not why they live here. They are here for community -- and they often feel that the younger generation is not. I've befriended a number of them already, and they often complain of unfriendliness by the younger folks. And I'd have to agree.
I also came here to be part of an educated, artistic, vibrant younger community. I've certainly found it, but I can see why one might feel that younger residents are unfriendly. I've felt it too. People often won't return a smile or a comment. People might not welcome you to your building. People seem content to keep to themselves. It's discouraging. In some ways, it feels like the Yuppies of the 80s.
I suggest that some of the younger residents reach out with a little friendliness. These "old timers" warm right up if you share a simple hello or give them a little respect. It's worked well for me.
People are not friendly or unfriendly according to any kind of demographic. We need to begin acting like we're all part of the same human race, regardless of whether we're new or old or whatever else. I don't see things in terms of "who gets more respect" or "who knows who" - everyone gets a fresh start every day.
I think that the basis of this thread has nothing to do with coffee beans or with who's been here longer or who doesn't smile or not. It has simply to do with community of all forms. It doesn't matter where one is from. Kids in their 20's are often too cool to smile or what have you, as are teenagers. And grumpy people come in all ages, nationalities, colors, and genders.
Again - no one has more rights than anyone else because of longevity. If that were the case, we'd still be respecting inbred monarchs.
This is the democratic experiment of our country. We are all equal. We are all one nation. AND we are are all ONE WORLD. Try unconditional love - try to treat everyone as your brothers and sisters, regardless of who they are or who you think they might be or who they might know. We all have something to offer.
Anon 3:14: You are absolutely right. A little friendliness goes a long way, and from personal experience, the friendliness is always reciprocated. To Anon 11:47am, newbies of any age, including you, should not assume, just because this is Carroll Gardens, that all "old-timers" are angry dogs or old mafia-types with a "Carmine" hiding in every basement waiting for orders to wack somebody. Totally ridiculous, bigoted, and offensive to everyone who lives here.
i think the real problem is how folks were raised. if you're used to a cul-de-sac, then you really can't relate to people! born & raised in a city teaches you how to relate with lots of different personalities, etc. so please, be more tolerant & respectful. the old-timers were here first! the 'newbies' claim to love the neighborhood but forget the reason why it's such neighborhood.
The criticism of the tough guy attitude is common, especially among many of my fellow neighbors who live here. To dispute the fact that many who live here, including friends of mine who have been here for decades, know that this neighborhood has had more than its share of tough guys is just living in denial. It's not a judgment - it's one of the fabrics of this neighborhood - and thankfully that era is mostly passing away, as we try to completely embrace the rule of law and a common justice, as flawed as it may currently be.
There are many great people who live in this neighborhood - and in all NYC neighborhoods. In the case of this area - look at all the street names and you will see that obviously someone non-Italian named most, if not all, of these streets. Obviously, someone was here before those that continue to claim Carroll Gardens as their own.
It belongs to all of us. And we all have a fondness for Carroll Gardens - some of us deny what the ingredients are here. Beautifully, the ingredients of Carroll Gardens are more and more diverse - because New York aspires to that kind of vision.
If anything, you could make an historical argument that who it actually belongs to is the indigenous original residents, the Native Americans, the Canarsee of the Lenape tribe. But that's obviously not the case - because things change - and ownership of land is simply an illusion. We're all fighting over who owns what and who has bragging rights to this neighborhood and so on.
It doesn't belong to the Native Americans, who didn't believe one could "own" land, since it's much bigger than our small human plans of eating and sleeping, etc. And it doesn't belong to the Dutch, who settled it in the 1600's. And it doesn't belong to the Norwegians, who built much of what's in Red Hook, Carroll Gardens, etc. It also doesn't belong to any other nationality, whether they be the Italians, the Irish, the Germans, the French, and ... you get the picture.
Live free. A united vision is better than a fragmented one.
But the church bells are so annoying. Seriously what if you lived across from the church. How could you even sleep? It's all through the night. And its not even on the hour so its not useful.
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