The offer from AWR came with a letter from DEP stating that: "Many New York City homeowners are not aware that repairs to the lines that run from their home's exterior to the mains in the street are their responsibility. Recognizing that many residents are unprepared for the potentially high cost of repairs and that most homeowner's insurance policies do not cover these costs, DEP is pleased to introduce new programs to protect homeowners like you from such unexpected expenses."
Also:
"Aging pipes, invasive tree roots, and even seasonal changes can cause a break to your water line or a blockage to your server line. Typical water line repairs cost New York homeowners between $3,000 and $5,000 while an average sewer line replacement costs between $10,000 and $15,000."
The insurance offered by AWR is $ 11.98 a month for both water and sewer line protection. Individual water service line and sewer service line protection plans are also available. The monthly fee is added to the DEP water bill.
This certainly sounds like an interesting offer for Brooklyn brownstone owners, but it would be interesting to get some feedback from those who have already signed up.
Is it a good deal? Are the repair estimates mentioned by DEP correct? Do you have any experience with AWR? Have you ever put in a claim?
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42 comments:
I have not signed up, but I think it is worth it.
Here is my reasoning.
I have owned my house for about 25 years and in that time I have not had problems with the water or sewer lines. The prior owner owned the house for 15 years and I recall asking about the water and sewer lines when I bought the house and he said that he had not replaced either.
That means the water/sewer lines are at least 40 years old.
Assuming they have about a 50 to 75 year life, I will replace them probably in the next 10 to 20 years.
If the premium is about $12 per month that is $144 per annum, so lets call it $150 per annum.
Therefore, I will pay abourt $1500 over the next 15 years for a repair that I am pretty sure is coming at some point in the future.
(Of course, the premium will increase over the next 15 years, but so will the cost of the repair.)
The clincher for me is that I live on Union Street, which is busier than the rest of the side streets, so there is more vibration and thus more stress on the pipes.
Net, net, I think this is a reasonable cost and will buy the insurance.
The one thing I have not done is to read the policy information carefully. There could be exclusions to the policy such that when you need to replace the line, they nickel and dime you and don't cover the full cost. This risk is somewhat reduced by the fact that the NY Water Board is sponsoring this insurnace and would not be happy if the insurer does not pay legitimate claims.
Also, need to check to see how financially strong the insurer is. If the insurer goes out of business, then you are paying for nothing.
Hope this helps.
Most definitely helps.
It's the nickel and dining that I am afraid off.
We had our water main line replaced a few years back,so I was thinking about just the sewer line, which, off course, is the expensive part.
Anyone else thinking about signing up?
Lawyer friends I've spoken w/ about this deal think that the exclusions make it not worth doing.
I can speak from experience that those cost estimates are pretty accurate. My sewer line cost me about $11,000 and that was 10 years ago. A few years before that, I did the water main, which I think was about $4,000.00.
about 5 years ago our line cracked while I was on vacation in Italy. Human excrement was flooding into our rental basement apartment during the torrential rain. I probably could have gotten something cheaper but my tenants were panicked. I paid $15,000 to get it fixed. Permits for side walk and another for the road delayed an immediate fix. nightmare.
NOT WORTH IT. It is rare that you will have to replace the lines. If you have to, it's a one time thing. Most owners of brownstones can afford the bill, as painful as it may be. Also, some homeowners insurance plans may cover the expense. The city is offering just one more monthly bill that adds to the bottom line.
Thanks for asking this question. I have been wondering if getting this insurance was worth it myself. Unfortunately, I'm still not sure what to do.
There has been a lot of discussion about this on the brownstoner forum. I am on the fence as well.
There is a rip off report about this company on the Internet. I looked for reviews and found it.
And why is our government (DEP) promoting this single company?
Value? hard to tell by the info in the advertisement (mailer). Concerns: 1. You must use their contractor without question, even if their contractor charges way over the "covered" amount. You pay the difference.
2. Does not cover many reasons for failure. Basically must be normal wear & tear. (No Flood, earthquake, sink hole etc.)
3. Does not cover pre-existing conditions. Leaves open to interpretation if failure mode started prior to entering into policy. "hey this pipe started rotting 10 yrs ago".
4. Does not cover any other needed repairs (sidewalk replacement, trees, bushes, anything inside your house etc.
In other words it covers locating the problem, digging a hole, and replacing a few dollars worth of pipe, and then covering it back up, oh and throwing down some grass seed.
Our plan, find someone with a backhoe to expose the pipes, then get a plumber to permit, and replace the pipes. Pay the neighbor kids to re-cover the hole.
I was foolish enough to sign up and was rejected after reporting a sewer line blockage. They sent a plumber to my house and quickly determined that the problem was "pre existing", not sure how they were able to determine nor did I get a formal response. After weeks of follow up they sent another plumber to my house who told me "the pipe is back pitched" which American water does not cover. So I have spent almost $100 dollars and received absolutely nothing!! AS I am sure you can imagine, I was quick to terminate my agreement
That doesn't sound good at all. We only signed up for the sewer pipe coverage. seemed cheap enough, but now I am doubting the value of it.
We contacted awr seen we had a sewage back up in October. They sent their plumber who said as long as there is not a broken plumbers snake in the pipe , they will fix it. They used their cameras and said there was a break in the pipe but saw a long item they determined was a broken snake therefore contract is null & void. We called another plumber and were charged $1500 to find out it wasn't a snake but a tree root. Call awr - send them videos & they will review. Fast forward to December 23 & have another backup. Pipe is officially collapsed & we are to gave 20 people over for Christmas Eve. Call awr - still no respone, they are still reviewing. We cannot get any supervisors on the phone. Well, we replaced our pipe at a cost of $10,500. We have tried calling awr again, but apparently the unprofessional idiot who is handing our case had an unexpected emergency right after we were told he was in.
This seemed like a legitimate agency but this is a SCAM, SCAM,SCAM. SAVE YOUR MONEY, I wouldn't give them a penny a month for the insurance. Save your money for when the pipe really does break.
In 2006 we paid $9,000 to have the sewer line from 100-plus year old brownstone to street replaced. (Note to person thinking back-hoe /neighbor kids can help. Don't try it. Only specially licensed companies can open NYC streets.) The problem was not a blockage or tree roots. The old ceramic pipe had disintegrated - probably over 50 years old. I'm still not certain whether this would have been covered.
When I initially received this letter in the mail last year I also was intrigued but when I read all the exclusions I knew that any homeowner who encountered a sewer line problem would be in a disadvantageous position. With the terms of insurance that AWR states, it would be so easy for them to decline coverage. Indeed, I am backed up by my initial assessment of this not being a good value for homeowners based on the feedback posts here, based on homeowners' actual experience.
Two further points:
1) google this company and you will quickly find bad reviews from frustrated homeowners who basically got jilted.
2) Why is DEP sponsoring this company? I had reached out to Brad Lander's office last year to make them aware of this but not sure if they ever followed up. Perhaps if more people call and complain an investigation will ensue into AWR.
Several Attorneys General have disapproved any links between officials or agencies and endorsements of any of these line protection services. One even stated that the program is not worth the cost. Consumer Reports also stated that it would be better to just set money aside. There are far too many reports of "pre existing" conditions or exclusions.
Thanks for the information. It does seem strange that DEP would give the appearance that they have a relationship with this company.
Scam!!!Don't purchase this insurance if you have old city owned homes. Had it for 5 years, never used it till now. Read the fine print, they will not replace if city upgrades their water lines. Had a leak in water line leading to my house,city water department dug up street and my curb and found my pipe to be leaking. So they disconnected my line and updated their line. Well that's all this insurance company has to know, they will not pay for any upgrade to copper pipes even those your line is leaking and pipe is corroded. This is the whole purpose for me to buy this insurance, but if you don't read the fine print you won't know it. Beware!
This is legitimate! They paid out for a complete sewer line replacement for my home in Los Angeles. Highly recommended! I'm thrilled I paid 16 dollars a month for this insurance.
I call bs. Scam scam scam
I had a leak in my sewer pipe in my basement.I had bought the insurance through american water resources that was suppose to cover the inside and outside of the house.I was denied and had to pay $2800.00 to get it fixed.When I called them I was told they only cover clogs.
Not sure I agree with all of the scam comments above. I saw the NYC's DEP May 2014 Commissioner's Corner and it looks like 1/5 New Yorkers have enrolled and have saved over $13 million in repair charges. Seems like it is working for some people...
I got this insurance foolishly thinking I was protected.On Memorial Day I had a clog in my sewer pipe.They did send somebody out the plumber snaked out the line and it was ok for a day.The next day we noticed a leak in the sewer line in the basement.I called and was told they only cover clogs in the sewer line.Not what I was convinced they would cover from the letter I got from them before I signed up.I felt after arguing a couple of times with them I should hire a plumber to fix it.It cost $2800.00 to fix it.I found a confirmation letter while the plumbers were fixing the pipe stating they covered leaks and clogs so I called again and the woman I talked to said they should have sent someone out to look at it at least.She said to send a copy of the bill from the plumber with a description of why the leak occurred and a copy of the check I paid with and they might cover it.It has been 5 weeks and yesterday I was told there are 14 people ahead of my case.I have NO faith in this company I think it is a total scam and I will NOT renew my contract with them or ever recommend them.So they saved me a BIG $200.00 maybe on snaking out the line but now I am stuck with $2800.00 plus $800.00 fixing the bathroom I had to rip out to get to the sewer line.$3600.00 not covered.Where was the savings in this insurance?Please let me know.
I HAVE SIGNED UP WITH THIS COMPANY AND I MUST SAY THEY ARE A SCAM. THEY CLAIM TO PROTECT YOU FROM WATER MAIN PROBLEMS AND THEY DO NOT. I HAD AN ISSUE WITH ONE OF MY INVESTMENT PROPERTIES (A FLOOD IN THE BASEMENT) AND THERE ANSWERING SERVICE WOULD NOT PICK UP ON 2 OCCASIONS. I CALLED DEP AND THEY WERE ABLE TO SNAKE THE LINE FROM OUTSIDE THE HOME. WHEN I CALLED THE AWS THEY TOLD ME BECAUSE I DIDN'T FOLLOW PROTOCOL AND WAIT 8 HOURS FOR THEM TO COME OUT...THEY REFUSED TO HELP ME. TO MAKE A LONG STORY SHORT THERE WAS AN ISSUE WITH MY MAIN WATER LINE. I CALLED A CONTRACTOR AND $8000 LATER THE PROBLEM WAS FIXED. ONE OF THE INSPECTORS THAT WAS ON SITE AND ALSO WORKS WITH THE AWS STATED THAT THIS ISSUE WAS SUPPOSE TO BE COVERED BY THE PROGRAM....BUT BECAUSE I DIDN'T FOLLOW PROTOCOL THEY REFUSE TO ACCEPT ANY RESPONSIBILITY WHATSOEVER. NEVER HAVE I HEARD OF A COMPANY THAT WANTS YOU TO BE COVERED IN FECES AND FILTH IN ORDER FOR THEM TO DO SOMETHING. THEY WILL NOT TAKE YOUR WORD FOR NOTHING. THEY ARE A SCAM AND ONLY WANT TO TAKE YOUR MONEY.... NOT TO HELP!!BEWARE OF THEM.
Thank you for blogging on this topic. I was glad to see you are in Brooklyn since that is where I live. I have had their letter since last year and just got around to investigating. Everything about them looks tricky. In order to even find any customer reviews I had to go to page 4 of a google search. All previous entries in the search are from AWR. I am sure they do everything to make sure we don't get to the bad reviews. Won't be buying this.
The real travesty of it all is that DEP sanctions them and allows a letter to be sent out under their letterhead.
Sooooo not worth it!! we have paid for this with American Water for 6 years!!! Then when we called for assistance from a backup was told that yes there are roots growing into but the line is slightly back pitched and they are cancelling service after 6 years of payments!!
Thank you all. Helped me make my decision. Just gonna take the money I would pay for the service and gonna put it in a account for repairs. I guess by the time I need it I may have some or enough of the money to cover the bill.
I just cancelled my contract. Was suspicious from the beginning--sponsored by a city agency??? But I figured it was cheap enough. (Since I had a water main and sprinkler line replaced some years ago, only the sewer line would go.) As luck would have it, my next door neighbor "on the plan" is currently having an issue with his water line. He cancelled when the contractor he called (the American Water Resources contractor) told him it was 'pre-existing' and that they basically only cover small leaks. Don't sign on! The hype makes it sound like they'll replace everything. By the way, this company hails from Jersey. Having grown up there, I suspect this is the kind of 'legitimate' business the good fellas are involved with. If 100,000 homeowners sign on for $150 a year, that's $15,000,000. Good money for no-show work. The fact that a City agency sponsors it only confirms my suspicions. Think Bridge-gate, Port Authority, etc., etc.
I live in Brooklyn and I purchased the insurance. I'm glad I did. Two months after purchasing it, i had a backed up sewer line. The line had collapsed and it would cost $6000 to repair it, but because I had the insurance, i paid nothing. Then, while they were fixing the pipe in my lawn, they discovered another section of the sewer line had collapsed. And they covered that too. In total, I probably saved about $15,000 (the second part was in the street and cost more because of the concrete). This is not a scam.
Good to know.
To put it bluntly it's a legal scam. Another popular mega rip off is those so called "home warranties" that are hawked by those infomercial cretins. Be skeptical if not cynical of anything that sounds too good to be true. Do your research thoroughly and never, ever, be enticed by some colorful yet provocative ad that may come your way spelling doomsday if you don't buy a "protection plan."
Well, here is all the things they will NOT cover (from their agreement):
7. What Repairs Are Not Covered?
AWR will not pay for any of the following:
• Repairing anything that occurred before the
Effective Date.
• Repairing anything not resulting from normal
wear and usage.
• Repairing anything caused by You or any
third parties.
• Repairing anything in any home that is vacant due to
renovation, remediation or construction.
• Repairing anything caused by natural acts or
disasters, such as earthquakes, oods, hurricanes, or
landslides.
• Repairing anything caused by defective materials
that have been the subject of a recall or class action
litigation.
• Repairing any Sewer Line connected to a non-
conforming drain line, such as a basement or storm
drain system.
• Repairing any Sewer Line improperly or illegally
connected to the sanitary sewer system.
• Repairing any septic tank or its components or
attachments, such as a pump or grinder.
• Repairing any devices connected to Your Sewer Line,
such as lift stations or pumps.
• Repairing any section of Your Sewer Line located
inside Your Home.
• Repairing any Sewer Line that is required to be
repaired as a result of any local, state or federal government/agency inspection/test, unless otherwise covered by this Agreement.
• Repairing any openings made in walls, ceilings or surfaces inside Your Home for AWR’s independent contractor to access Your Sewer Line.
• Repairing any third party’s sewer line that is attached to Your Sewer Line.
• Restoring any gardens, shrubs, trees or structures.
• Restoring any sidewalks, curbs, driveways, roads or
other paved surfaces that are not required by permit or New York City Department of Transportation rules and regulations to be repaired or restored.
• Moving any sewer meter at the time of repair, unless required by code.
• Relocating any section of Your Sewer Line, unless necessary to complete a repair.
• Updating any non-broken or non-blocked Sewer Line to meet code, law or ordinance requirements.
• Removing any items necessary to access Your Sewer Line, such as debris, trash, rocks, cars or temporary structures.
• Remediating or cleaning any hazardous substance or pollutant, such as mold or asbestos.
• Thawing any frozen section of Your Sewer Line.
• Excavating Your Home's foundation or slab to access
any section of Your Sewer Line.
• Repairing, replacing or cleaning any portion of Your
Home or its contents that are damaged by breaks,
clogs or blockages to Your Sewer Line.
• Paying any costs caused by a break, clog or blockage
of Your Sewer Line, such as relocation costs, storage
costs or temporary housing costs.
• Paying any damages caused by a break, clog or
blockage to Your Sewer Line, such as lost time, lost use of Your Home or its contents or any damages due to any special circumstances or conditions.
I have a copper water line from the city main to inside my basement where it's connected to their meter. I see the copper line coming in the foundation. I believe it was done @ 15 years ago with previous owner and I have no trees or obstructions. It's a straight run to their main in the street. I was told being it was changed already to copper I shouldn't worry. For the sewer line a cam pic was taken and said it looks OK the angle is pitched OK and you shouldn't have no problems with the sewer line again no trees just grass and straight run to city sewer main. Just seeing what feedback some pros would give. The plumber I know told me I'm good with the new Copper run from the city main to inside house foundation and the way they made the Sewer lines back in the late 1950's things are OK and besides theirs no trees or heavy traffic on the side street. Plus theirs ways of repairing the sewer lines with today's technology the plumber said. Wrote my story to maybe help others decide because I just received a letter from the DEP for insurance from AWR on both water & sewer lines if they break the costs are @ 3,000 to 5,000 for the Water line & 10,000 to 15,000 for the Sewer line per letter I received from DEP & it even made me a little skeptical. Hope it helps others close to my situation.
My parents received the letter offering this insurance, but after reading the comments, I am going to advise them to pass. Their house is 80+ years old, and I am sure if anything goes wrong with the water or sewer pipes, AWR will classify it as pre-existing.
After 3 + years in good standing. and only 2 service calls in that time, (but within 3 months...), AWR dropped my sewer line coverage in Manhattan Beach, Brooklyn, less than a week after the 2nd call.
First, they claimed I cancelled it myself. Then, that I had to be connected to the city's system (not so according to contract). Their latest "reason" is that I don't have a septic tank! (where does the waste go?). And why did'nt they say anything for the first three, no-incident, years? In any case, the contract does not concern the septic tank, only the sewer line.
Complaints to the BBB, the NYS Consumer Affairs Bureau were "denied". I feel that AWR is dealing in bad faith, and purposely distorting their own contract's reading.
I can't simply judge if it is worth having AWR protection plan or not. But once thing for sure is that AWR's service is extremely lousy. You can simply try to call them to see how long it will take for you to get someone to help you. If you would have some issues, then it could take up to months to get the issues resolved. To me, AWR has been the worst company I have been dealing with for over 25 years. If you like to get frustrated, try to work with AWR.
Seeing that AWR protection plan has more pros than cons, does anyone have any recommend any services for sewer line repairs? Thanks.
Just cancelled today, spoke to Terry and gave me her Id#. She asked me too much questions why am I cancelling. I told her after recommending a friend who paid and joined for a year, me iis more than 2 years, we read everything and it looks like nothing is covered. She kepton saying that it is not true and where I got it. I said, from the complaint and reviews. She said they are not true. Finally, I got sick that she kept on insisting for me to not cancel, and I told her, JUST cancel, I don't need to reason at all! Then she did. Glad, I don't need to waste money and I will just save it in the future, I wold need it. I Pay $12.96 per month which cost me almost $350 for nothing in more than 2 years.
This offering is an agreement to benefit the sanctioning parties DEP and AWR, read carefully
the first paragraph #1, you can understand fully what "backed by the full faith and credit of AWR". This is their only OBLIGATION! Faith and Credit. And you thought they offered services
pertaining to water and sewer lines. Save yourself time and money call around talk to your neighbors about licensed plumbers that handle these issues they can help!
scam! I'm in the insurance biz and the only way a company like this makes money is by denying claims. just don't understand why dep lends its authority to such a group.
10. How Can You Get Service?
If there is a clog or blockage of Your Sewer Line, You may
contact AWR toll-free at 1-855-705-8434. If You do, AWR
will dispatch an approved independent contractor to Your
Home for repairs covered under this Agreement. AWR’s
independent contractor will obtain any necessary permits
before work begins. AWR’s independent contractor will
first attempt to clear the clog or blockage. If it is cleared,
no other repairs will be made. If AWR’s independent
contractor must excavate any areas outside Your Home
in order to access Your Sewer Line, they will refill, rake
and reseed the area once per occurrence. No other site
restoration will be performed.
Check out the bold fonts. Basically they can snake the day night out of your sewer line without doing any real repair. Who care if water backs up and damage your basement time after time :(
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