"Raised in Carroll Gardens" has left the following comment on the post "Neighborhood Graffiti: Hipsters Good...Yuppies, Not So Good":
Everyone is welcome in Carroll Gardens. However, if you decide to stay then please become a neighbor and JOIN the neighborhood.
Please don't move in because you like it so much, but then try to change us.
We welcome new neighbors and we especially welcome new friends - - but if you go around complaining that there aren't enough Starbucks then you're just telling us what you think WE did wrong before you got here and saved us.
Join us, live here for 4 or 5 years (full-time) and become our neighbor in a real neighborhood.
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29 comments:
Katia, I'm flattered that you decided to let mine be "The Best Comment of The Day"
Thanks!
Well, Raised in Carroll Gardens, you expressed very well what I was feeling myself.
Keep the great comments coming.
It's so true. The most exhausting attitude in NYC (and I suspect anywhere with local pride) is the race to who deserves to live somewhere more than others. It shouldn't matter who you are; it should matter what your actions are.
I would just add that not all change is bad. (Although that opens us up to deciding who gets to choose what's positive and negative change.)
Some residents who have lived in my neighborhood all their lives are destructive and disrespectful to their neighbors, just like some newcomers are. It all goes both ways.
Residence that lived all their lives in this area is what made this neighborhood what it is today. A great one!! Newcomers have no respect,ie:garbage pails that Stink even when empty ,side walks dirty. Don't they know what a garden hose or a broom is for?
give me a break. newcomers are entitled to their opinions. open your minds. this is new york. we are all immigrants, and change is a constant -- that is the historic tradition of this city.
To Anonymous #2 9:58 a/m: No one said that newcomers can't have an opinion. All we're asking is that they voice opinions based on thought, reason & experience.
Change is NOT bad. However, change for the SAKE of change is often short-sighted.
Newcomers, as well as 4th & 5th generation Carroll Gardeners, must have had a reason to move here (and/or to stay where they were raised.)
But many people choose to live in Carroll Gardens, knowing it's just for the Short Term. Its their 'en-mass voiced opinions' that skew the actions taken by local businesses and building owners.
To Anonymous #1 @ 9:39a/m:
You can't always blame newcomers. Please keep in mind that many of the buildings in Carroll Gardens are owned by Absentee Landlords whose greed has made in sometimes impossible for Newcomers to afford to stay and who OFTEN push-out OldTime Renters who are in their 70's & 80's.
If a young newcomer lives in a building and pays $2,200 for a 1-bedroom apartment, why should he/she sweep a sidewalk or wash a pail for an absentee landlord.
However, every Newcomer I know who actually owns a building keeps thier building AS NICE if not NICER than most of the old-timers around. Hey, but you can't blame the old-timers, either. The old-timers are getting old and don't have the energy to scrub like they used to.
We - original & healthy C.G. residents - should try to set an example. If the newcomers see us take pride in our area then they may join in.
And, if we see an Oldtimer struggle with thier up-keep why not help instead of complain?
it seems that 'real nyorkers' are the ones that have been here for awhile==newbies have no 'flavor', i am not going to apologize for this statement. you people have nothing to give nyc==except $ to pay for the higer rents.
If newbies want to be respected they should leave the old way THE OLD WAY and stop complaining about everything and trying to change the things that made carroll gardens appeal to them in the first place .. im sick of the starbucks on every corner .. complaining about the ice cream truck music ... dunkin donuts ... building high rise apartments on every block ...and trying to change things that the natives grew up with that have meaning and history behind them ... This was never what this neighborhood was about! .. Come to cg and enjoy it - we dont want it to look like "every other neighborhood" carroll gardens is slowly loosing its italian flavor which is what makes it so special
I will confess this comment does not make me feel welcome. Unfortunately it seems to confirm the negative stereotypes about Carroll Gardens that I have heard, that some of the longer-time residents are somewhat intolerant.
What was Carroll Gardens before it was Italian, I wonder?
It was Irish and Scandinavian.
12:38 - I wonder if the Irish and Scanadanians, who were here before, got upset when the Italians moved in and changed the flavor of the neighborhood. It wasn't always Italian - and in NYC, neighborhoods are always changing! Sorry to say, because of course one feels a fondness for what is. I know that since I moved here 25 years ago, the nabe has changed, "gentrified" a lot, and the rents have gotten very steep.
I choose to stay out of this debate! Kathleen
ok anon if you wanna be smart about it lets all cry for the native americans and how white settlers kicked them off their land ... this neighborhood was fine the way it was small shops that suited everyones needs and people that minded their own business
Natty,
New York has a history of mistreating newcomers, which is human nature. I have Italian, Irish, and Norwegian blood. My family were longshoremen, tool and die makers, and boilermaker welders.
Does this make me inherently better or worse than anyone else here? No, it doesn't. Intent and actions are what matter, whether someone has lived here their whole life or moved here last year. Either you have problems communicating or you live with anger and a closed heart. Is too bad and your loss.
natty -- clearly those shops did not suit EVERYone's needs, if this whole debate started because someone wanted a new shop.
why does it seem to be acceptable to insult "yuppies" or people who like starbucks -- it seems like we should have all gotten beyond this 1999 mentality. doesn't the world have bigger problems to worry about?
i guess you like chainfood places everywhere and no ice cream truck music as u walk through the streets a place where everything looks the same all around ... And id take being "coldhearted" over having a vanilla personality like you do anyday!
Natty -- I love local businesses, including new ones, like Frankie Sputino, Stumptown, and Watty & Megs. I also love old school places like the Court street bakeries. What about Mama Maria -- new place or old? I don't care, it's great. Sams? I love it. I also love Starbucks. I can love all these things. Being a newcomer doesn't limit me to your categories, and it doesn't mean I don't love ice cream trucks -- I do. People are individuals, not categories. Stop with the hate, please. Don't assume that because I love Starbucks I hate everyone who lived here before me. There is room for all of us.
I am really disappointed in this blog for perpetuating and publicizing these types of attitudes -- when you welcome neighbors, don't follow that statement with "however" or "but". We live in a modern, pluralistic society. Reading some of these comments has made me feel like I am as welcome in Carroll Gardens as I am in a medieval hilltop village in the old country. I did not know that such anger existed before, and it is too bad.
Dear Anon 10:41,
In the last few days, I have thought hard about publishing or not publishing some of the more divisive comments. I do however, hate to sensor my readers, unless the comments are really too over the top.
I agree, they do not sound welcoming to newcomers. But I also believe that they come from only one or two readers. The others are all in agreement with you.
I do however think it is good to have this dialogue.
What does everyone else think?
thanks so much for your reply Katia. I think it is good to air out these differences, I just hope that what appears to be knee-jerk dislike of 'newcomers' or 'yuppies' is not elevated and legitimized in the process. I have been gratified at the balance of some of the responses.
When I moved to Carroll Gardens in 1985, I was considered a newcomer, a yuppie...I remember it really bothering me. I guess the last to come is always eyed with a certain degree of suspicion.
Hardly seems fair, but I think t is like that in ALL neighborhoods.
Havent you people ever heard of freedom of speech? And if you would read carefully i got called way worse "coldhearted" ... And that didnt bother you? Oh pleasee
No one is trying to censor you Natty. Nor do you have any right to free speech on a private, moderated website.
Newcomers have freedom to speak as well.
Katia - I'm sorry that I ever wrote the comment which became your "Comment of The Day" on August 27th.
Some people "agreed" with me yet took it to the extreme - wanting all new people to go away. Which, in turn, opened the door to "I'm new & I just knew I wasn't welcome."
I still feel New people should always be welcomed to Carroll Gardens. And I still feel that new people should work to become real Neighbors and spend some time enjoying the things that made them decide to move here(shops, eateries, bars, parks, etc.)
Why not enjoy things before they vote-out & push-down the "old" or moan-over the things they 'miss' that would make us more Manhattan-eske.
And LONG Time Residents, how about waking-up and smelling the coffee, that we're lucky that some fesh blood came to the area, because in the late '70's into the '80's and at the start of the '90's the area was in a steep decline. You couldn't walk in Carroll Park day or Night and you couldn't walk along Smith Street except between 1st Place and Union.
New People - get to know your older neighbors. Old-time residents, how about a smile for the unfamilar face?
Either way, however, this blog site turned out to be no better than any other - - - it has become the center of Rants & Raves with small minded people (on both sides of the issue) acting as if they were on some Jr. High School Debate team located in HEL!!
I've lived in cg all of my 49 years. I think what the old timers don't appreciate is how rude these newbies are. I think it's due to their being from the rural/suburban areas. They haven't a CLUE about big city living! And as for you Katia, you will never 'belong'. Don't be upset about that though. If I were to move to another area, I wouldn't expect to belong either!
Impa - 8:49 p/m
In many ways, you're right. Although, it may not be a 100% Newbie Thing. It may also be a generational thing.
While it's true that a lot of the YOUNG C.G. Newbies are Rude, it's also true of the YOUNG 3rd or 4th generation Carroll Gardeners, too.
It's the generation - they have Laptop, Cafe, I-pod, Group/Tribe mentalities.
And it's not just Carroll Gardens, it's all over.
I go to Walt Disney World 4 or 5 times every year and over the past 3-4 years I've noticed more & more Older Workers. When I asked, I was told (more than once, by various managers) that they lean towards hiring older people because an entire generation (between the ages of 16 and 25) have no Social Skills. They hire younger people to work the computers but hire older people for Front Desk / Customer Relations / Service Desk positions.
So we should all take a breath and then notice the age of the Newbie - THAT Age may be the reason for the rudeness. Then take a second or 2 to blame thier parents!
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