How Long Does One Have To Live In Carroll Gardens
Before One Is No Longer Considered A Newcomer?
This question has puzzled me for quite some time now, and I would love to hear neighborhood old-timers and newcomers have to say on the subject. The issue comes up regularly on the comment section of this and other blogs. It seems to be rather hotly debated amongst residents here in the neighborhood.
So lets here it! Would you say that you are no longer a newcomer after 5 years, 10 years, 20 years or never, unless you were born here!
For Home Page, click Pardon Me For Asking
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18 comments:
In the village were my grand-parents were use to live, I have always been considered as an alien because I was not born there. This is certainly the same here. This is not a problem.
It should not be a problem. I believe it's true for any place. You gotta be born and bred.
Over 20 years here and finally the "mayor" of our block acknoweledged me with a slight not of his head. I feel like I belong here but have always made a point to defer to the old timers on community issues. Well, I don't always defer to the big enchilada, Buddy Scotto, but at one time I did until I realized that the majority of old timers were scoffing at him.
There are still some businesses I don"t go into because I feel like an interloper.
How to fit here is to respect your neighbors who have been here for a long time. There will be many rewards like Halloween candy saved for your kids to name one.
Well, the original people who lived here were the Native Americans. So anyone after that is coming from somewhere else. Even if you were born here, you are not indigenous. And this is a beautiful place to live, partially because of the mix of people. That's what is so beautiful about NY, and why, of all the places in the US, I CHOSE to call this my home. I certainly acknowledge and love the flavor of the Italian - but it is NOT indigenous. And much of what I loved before, from 25 years ago, has gone. I used to be able to walk 10 minutes in any direction and see old-timers on their sidewalks, talking Italian, Spanish. They were friendly to me, warm-hearted. I never felt like an intruder. That's the neighborhood I love. I have much to offer here, too. But PLEEZ, if you give me attitude, you are not my people no matter how long you have been here.
I don't think you are real Carroll Gardener untill you get rid of your feeling of self entitlement that comes along with so many of the newcomers.
It's funny, but my family has been wihtin the same 10 block radius in "Carroll Gardens" since the 1930's - BUT, I have a friend whose family was here since the 1860's, and SHE calls ME a newcomer. LOL!
With that being said, a newcomer is new only until they adjust to local traditons & respect those who came before them. If you only stay within your own click and push for change before you understand what came before you, then you'll always be a newcomer.
Hi Katia and brethren,
Stumbled across your site and thank GOD for you! My link to my old home. I was born and bred near the canal in the 60's. Yes, it stank but only if you were stood at the water. We kids planned to sail outta Brooklyn from that canal one day to explore the world. The Williamsburg Bank tower was a daily view. Went to P.S. 32. Mr. Crea (where are you?) was my fav teacher. I never forgot him, never will! My Dad used to take me to the old Italian man who had a soda fountain from the 50's. He would make me the biggest sundaes (his wife would clean the chocolate of my dress) until I thought I would bust. I remember Italian, Black, Spanish, Jewish, etc. growing up. We eventually moved to the Long Island. I cried for months and never forgave my parents for this "better" life. Through the years I dreamt of Brooklyn and that bank tower. I know in my heart, some day I will be back to stay! Still visit and I am coming this July to show my husband my old neighborhood where I come from and can't wait! Dear folks am I still a native???
Dear Anon 10:39
Welcome (back) to the neighborhood. I am sure you would still be considered a native.
Once a Carroll Gardener, always a Carroll Gardener.
I love your recollections of PS 32 and the local places.
Please, please, won't you share more memories?
Why does it matter? This is America. You live where you want. Unless of course you're so insecure that you need constant affirmation of your existence. Get over yourself and enjoy where you are living.
Everybody knows that real New Yorkers moved here because they were too ambitious or weird to stay where they were raised. If you were born here you must go out into the world or at least change boroughs once or twice to be a true New Yorker.
Why someone who has never left their block would feel entitled to lord it over everyone else is beyond me, pun intended.
Didn't we fight the revolutionary war to end Peerage amongst other things?
I'm reading accusations here of [lack of ] "respect" "sense of entitlement" from newcomers. Hey: 1. Newcomers are paying through the nose to live here, much much more than "natives". That may create some sense of entitlement (not saying it is right or wrong, but how would you feel if you were paying 2 grand for a studio?); 2. without the newcomers, what would the "natives" have/be left with? Some of the "natives" are making LOTS of money off the newcomers. And the neighborhood would be in decaying state without influx and revitalization. That word "respect" is an interesting choice of words, I think. Like from "The Godfather."
Speaking as someone who has lived here for 49 yrs - my lifetime, so far! I will say that it has been my experience to always welcome new neighbors into Carroll Gardens. And no matter where you live, people feel that if you weren't born here you are a newcomer. That said - to people who come here resenting that they are paying the high rents - those are the people who caused the rents to go up. In /around 1985 when people realized we had great access to NYC - convenient for working & getting around town, they kept offering higher rents for apts because it was still cheaper than living in NYC. Real Estate Agents pushed that envelope,and yes some landlords got greedy. But, you moved here because you liked the area - so do we. But what goes on here now is just downright rudeness. Alot of people moving here now are just 'transient' and really aren't interested in being neighbors.
They go into local shops, God Forbid they should get off their cellphones or pull the earbuds from their ears while you are helping them. How about acknowledging the person who says hello when you walk in? Once in awhile you will get a hello or a good morning - rarely a grin or smile. You want a neighborhood act like neighbors.
We are an old neighborhood with old buildings having tenants that pay alot of rent doesn't prevent us from decaying. To Enuf...if you are paying $2000 for a studio, honey,you needed to shop around a little better. So many people in this neighborhood are paying that for 4 & 5 room apts... unless you moved into a "new" building.
As far as old timers - like the old guys on the block - they don't have the attitude towards new comers, that's been their attitude since 1950! LOL
As Agnes says - you give attitude, you'll get it. Maybe if you smile a time or two at the old timer you'll get one back. After all they still believe in respecting your elders, and just plain old manners.
Katia - Enjoy M B! We are going there in 3 wks. It's one of our favorite places. Do some shaggin' while you are there - the contests usually start this week. If you aren't a dancer, it's just fun to watch.
Respect is a good word - but having/showing respect isn't a matter of being a NewComer, or an OldTimer. Respect is a matter of Up Bringing.
If you choose to live in a certain area it's presumed that you moved there because a) you LIKE it and b)you can afford it.
However, Carroll Gardens (like many other parts of Brooklyn & Queens) draws a third type of person. Person "C" is the person who moved here because of its proximity to NYC, and our lower rents.
While "A" & "B" types move here because they choose to live in this area, the "C" Type often is only "passing through" or "just settling"!
It's generally these "C" people who try to make the area more NYC-ish and/or go around with a chip on thier shoulders.
It's this "C" type person (the ones who really don't want to live here) that choose to be disrespectfull and they choose to moan & groan about everyone who IS-IN-TO the area: Old or New!
Or maybe they were never taught respect, manners, civility in the 1st place!
Yeah, I hear you about the people who walk around with earplugs in their ears and their fingers on their IPods or some other hand-held device. No interest in or connection to their fellow human beings whatsoever. So now I have to feel REALLY lucky that I'm in a neighborhood where I can still feel a sense of community. Where people still exude some warmth and humanity towards each other. We have a GREAT neighborhood - and I don't care if, after 25 years here, you may still think I'm a newcomer. You've made me feel at home like I have never felt before. And I've been in a lot of places!
To EnufALready:
NewComer is generally a relative term. As I wrote, my family has been here since the 1930's but my friends who have family here since the 1850' & 1860's tease ME about being a NewComer. The important thing is that you are (or seem to be) a good neighbor.
As Lifetime C.G'r wrote, there are plenty of people from C.G. who are rude/stand off-ish to the "NewComers" - BUT... they're like that to EVERYone! LOL That's Life.
Paying "Too Much" rent isn't an excuse to be nasty or rude. Heck, if they were a little nicer and showed a smile once in awhile don't you think some old Italian Lady would make them dinner or bake them a cake. That would save them a few bucks (so they'd have a little extra pocket money to spend at the Gowanus Yacht Club! LOL)
By the way, Enuf: LifeTime C.G.'r was right. If someone is paying 2G's for a studio, they trusted the Real Estate guy too much. Strike up a FRIENDLY conversation with a few NOT-so-NewComers and you could learn about the 1-2 bedroom apartments that are still going for $2,000.00
Remember, this is Brooklyn. It helps to Know A Guy!
Thanks, Raised. You're absolutely right - being neighborly has gotten many many Sunday afternoon dinner invites -THE BEST Italian food you cannot get in any restaurant - gravy with meat balls and neck bones (yum!), eggplant parmigiano. Heaven! Unfortunately, the two ladies who cooked it have passed on...but I can still smell that kitchen! To reciprocate, I cooked tongue once for one of them. She loved it. I think if we all ate some meals together, there'd be a whole lotta love going around!
To EnufAlready:
"As the waist line grows, so does understanding."
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